irrational physical response to betting

[Keith]

I've noticed that I'm experiencing physical reactions when I'm going all in. Heart beat rises and blood pressure rises etc. Ok , there are all the biological explanations regarding adrenalin etc.What is irrational is that I'm playing 5NL. The actual monetary value is nothing in comparison to ordinary everyday purchases in a shop, There are poker mags here in the uk for roughly that price but the same reactions don't occur when i hand over my money.
I've never really experienced this in the two years I've been playing up until now , but that was mainly freerolls, but even so some of them that I won or placed highy in carried far bigger cash values associated with the prizes I was playing for than the value of the all in.
Its not that its just something thats started now and happening across the board. In the FTR freeroll at the weekend I was fine especially when it came to bubble play with essentially a cash value 3 times a 5NL pot at stake .Same when it was playing once we'd cashed, I don't know whether "chin" or "KB coolman" noticed whether I was playing scared or weird around the bubble and later stages. I was cautious on the bubble but that comes from being the short stack but I still got my money in when I had to with no physical effects.
I'm not sure whether it's down to cash games still being new to me or whether I've had such a lot experience in tourney play that I'm used to it whereas cash game is still new to me. One possible cause is that I'm considering my bankroll as my money being risked and putting more pressure on myself as my bankroll is my bankroll and as i promised my wife and mother in law when i started playing poker that I wouldn't be depositing any of my own money on sites , my roll has genuinely been built up from zero via freerolls.
Another possible reason is that for some reason I think I'm putting my money in good , but I seem to end up losing when opponent hit their 1,2, and 4 outers with only limited success in all ins and therefore causing a bit of anxiety to see what the result is going to be. Last night I had AA against JJ and all in after a 29T flop and he hit the J on turn. The other one was a short stacker who went all in on his first hand pre flop , I called it with QQ and he had ATs and got a T on the flop and another T on the river.
Its not necessarily the fact that I'm "gambling" with cash as I can quite happily put the same amounts on a lottery ticket. Does anyone else notice this happening to them when they start playing cash , and does it improve with experience.

[kb coolman]

Iz cuz going AI in a cash game is da supa nuts, and gawd we looooves to gambool.

And I've found it doesn't matter what the stakes are, it's about winning. I have the same reactions at $25NL as I did playing $1 SnGs. For me, it's about the competition, not the money (but winning the monies is pure awesome). It's why I play poker.

I've also noticed this only happens when I strongly feel I have the best hand, and I'm not just making a +EV play. When I think I have the best hand, my heart rate goes hope praying against the suckout or bad beat like that monster kick in the nuts I took in the freeroll the other night. Ugh. I went on to win 2 BI at $25NL after that game, but that hand is still hurting me a little.

[Stacks]

Here's a few things I can think of to consider.

Are you playing properly rolled for the stakes your at? Meaning are you following sound BRM? If not, then you could feel you don't have enough room for error and feel that you must win every pot, and therefore feel stressed when a large portion of your stack is at risk. I know I feel this way whenever I initially move up, as I really just haven't adjusted to the 2x sum of money.

You likely do need to just give it time to adjust to cash games. Remember that in a tourney you've already paid the entrance fee and signed the money away. Of course you hope to win back the money you risked, but you don't have a high expectation due to the variance in tourneys. However, in a cash game, while you have sat down at the table with the money and therefore ultimately know you could potentially lose it, you don't expect it to happen as fast as just one hand. One moment you have the money, a hand later you don't. And with you realizing a situation where you could possible lose a buyin, that could possibly cause those problems.

I would like to say that I experience this also at times. However, I'm relatively sure my problem is attributed to the monetary value that I'm throwing around. In my everyday normal routines $200-$400 is a good bit of money for me. Hell my rent is only $325 per month. So when I play 2/4 and get allin for a buyin, I kinda equate that buyin with something of similar value (like rent etc). So I've definitely the feeling you are describing when I play 2/4, even when I'm properly rolled for the stakes.

However, at 1/2 (my regular stakes), I do not really experience any sort of responses when I risk multiple buyins. I assume there is definitely an adjustment period that you must go through before becoming comfortable.

[Sir Pawnalot]

Once I played against a player who was very rich outside poker, but played micro because of the same reasons as you did- he had built up his bankroll from zero via freerolls. He had 5 bucks in his roll, but he said they were his most "precious" bucks.

For winners like you and me- losing hurts really bad. We do everything possible to avoid it- whether it is soccer, weightlifting, athletics or business. Whenever we fail, we work twice as hard so that it never happens again.

This "alpha" mentality can be detrimental to poker if we do not adjust our expectations for the short run. We can not expect to "win" any session- all we can expect is that we make excellent decisions over and over ad infinity with the occasional mistake here and there.

To conquer my own fear of betting I practiced playing LAG and maniac for some time. My first hand at 100 NL was a failed triple barrel bluff. Playing LAG and maniac really improved my skill at estimating fold equity- and that was an invaluable addition to my overall game.

Nothing pisses me off like a huge mistake by myself. Betting in a situation where it seems profitable, even if it turns out bad, does not. I do not care about the outcome- only my decision considering the information that was available.

[Monty3038]

A physical reaction could be the body telling you that it isn't comfortable with the action you just took on.

Pay close attention to when it is happening, are you making a good decision at that point? Then it may not be a matter of the body disagreeing with you, it might just be learning to adapt to a new style...

My concept for this reply is based on HOH where he states that you will be most profitable and most uncomfortable playing outside your standard style... I do too still get nervous on an all-in situation, but less so now that I have been playing for a while... just roll with it and build your confidence in making good decisions... if you got the money in good, eventually your body will agree...

[Jason]

And I've found it doesn't matter what the stakes are, it's about winning. I have the same reactions at $25NL as I did playing $1 SnGs. For me, it's about the competition, not the money (but winning the monies is pure awesome). It's why I play poker.

Agree. A month or two ago, I entered a $0.25 MTT and I had many moments where I was anxious or my heart rate increased. I was genuinely happy whenever I would move up a level in the money even if it was literally ten cents. This past weekend, I went to the casino where the big blind was $2.00 - 8 times the amount of my MTT entry fee. The money isn't the point - it's about having fun, trying to win, and doing your best. I learned from the Poker Mindset that this can be a paradox because ideally we want to play on an even keel and won't even blink an eye if we lose a $10,000 pot on a bad beat runner runner. But, if you are able to maintain that much control over your emotions, you likely won't get the same satisfaction from winning or just playing. On the other hand, if you get TOO happy when you win, you'll be just that more upset, angry, or anxious when you lose.

It can be a tough balancing act. I try to give myself a little wiggle room on each side. I try not to ever get too happy or too upset by results, but I also DO want to enjoy winning and DO want losing to have some sting. I like to have some healthy respect for all my opponents, but no fear either.

Are you playing properly rolled for the stakes your at? Meaning are you following sound BRM? If not, then you could feel you don't have enough room for error and feel that you must win every pot, and therefore feel stressed when a large portion of your stack is at risk. I know I feel this way whenever I initially move up, as I really just haven't adjusted to the 2x sum of money.

This is also very important. The essence of bankroll management is that you DO NOT have to worry about your money. There is a proven system in place to take care of all that. All you have to do is follow the bankroll management strategy and play good poker to move up. It's really as simple as that. Yes, sometimes bankroll management requires you to move down due to playing bad poker or natural variance and that's not pleasant, but it's more pleasant than losing your roll in a matter of days or minutes. If you are not exercising good bankroll management, then you will naturally worry with good reason and this will surely affect your play.

The main point to consider is if you are making the same plays that you would if you were calm and nothing was @ stake. If you find yourself playing differently in a bad way, then you have to find a way to correct it.

[trilerian]

I love the heart beating adrenaline rushing feel of going all-in. Simply put it is awesome. 10 years ago, I used to skydive, bungee jump, snowboard in half pipes, race moto-x and ride my gsxr 750 at 150mph to get that feeling. Now all I have to do is push AT from the btn when I am short stacked at a tourny and presto, I'm flying again. Between poker and racing rc cars, my life now is a lot less dangerous but just as exciting. And to boot, slightly less expensive.

[Keith]

As far as Bankroll goes it started at 150$ for 5NL , currently at 144$ and Ive set my move back down to 2NL at 90$.
The main point of my post was aimed more at the irrationality of the adrenaline rush at the level I'm playing. Outside of poker its a sum of money thats spent without a moments thought.However , inside of poker 1 buyin is a significant part of the range before I have my drop down to 2NL . As time goes by , and hopefully I start increasing my roll I think that the pressure will be less as I get more of a buy in cushion away from the drop down threshhold.Hopefully I will also become more comfortable playing cash games generally as well.
This could then have a knock on effect at the move up level in that I may be best to set a bigger cushion in terms of buyins before I do move up.