ROI

[tncatfish43]

what is ROI and how do you calculate it?

[Airles™]

return on investment

how much invested vs amount won

Just divide the profit by your total investment and that's your return

[tncatfish43]

still confused on how to do it?I turned a free 40 cents into $4.06 would it be a ROI of 9.0 or .13 ?

[kb coolman]

still confused on how to do it?I turned a free 40 cents into $4.06 would it be a ROI of 9.0 or .13 ?

You're doing it wrong. Winnings divided by initial investment:

$4.06-$0.40 = $3.66 in winnings.

$3.66/$0.40 = 9.15, or 915%

Of course, this is irrelevant if you're initial investment is 'Free'. Then your ROI is infinite.

[tncatfish43]

thank you kb coolman.is that a decent ROI for someone with no way of putting money in accoun.i cashed in juno invitational and won 40 cents.I'm pretty confident in my play but how big of a stack should I get before i move away from the 10 and 25 cent tourneys?

[kb coolman]

Um, that's a ridiculous ROI, totally unsustainable, and indicative of a massive heater. It's also an indicator of a ton of fun.

With this much, you're perfectly rolled for $0.10 tourneys. Typically, you want a Bankroll that is 40x the buyin amount. Keep crushing the 10 cent tourneys, move up to 25 cents when you have $10.

Nice job.

BUT, you don't want to calculate ROI over your entire BR. It needs to be calulated on a tourney by tourney basis, then averaged out over time. My current tourney ROI is about 40% or so, playing $2.

[tncatfish43]

"massive heater" what is that?I know it cant mean maniac cause i'm probably the tightest player you'll ever meet.I'll throw away AA KK or AK pre flop just to insure i make the money?since i can't put anymore on it,cashing is my first priority?

[Airles™]

"massive heater" what is that?I know it cant mean maniac cause i'm probably the tightest player you'll ever meet.I'll throw away AA KK or AK pre flop just to insure i make the money?since i can't put anymore on it,cashing is my first priority?

No offense but that's not tight. It's stupid. If you EVER want to be ANY good at poker, bury what you just said and then bury the shovel. Seriously, would you rather make the money by folding AA and just barely make a return, or have a 4 to 1 chance of scooping a big pot with AA and possibly having enough chips to win the whole damn thing? Sounds like you're playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. Not a good recipe for success my friend.

A heater is when you are running good or having the cards fall your way for an extended period of time. Be forewarned though that with every heater comes a downswing and you'll have to be mentally and financially ready for when it comes.

[tncatfish43]

i've busted with AA 1 man before the is cost me money,i'm not scared to play that kind of hands but if it means NEVER being able to play again i'll fold no matter what if i only have enough cash to play 1 more if i dont cash.If i get up to enough to play 5 or 6 more i'll play looser.but if it's my last dime or so cashing is my only option since if i dont cash i'll be gone for good with no way to get more money.

[Airles™]

i've busted with AA 1 man before the is cost me money,i'm not scared to play that kind of hands but if it means NEVER being able to play again i'll fold no matter what if i only have enough cash to play 1 more if i dont cash.If i get up to enough to play 5 or 6 more i'll play looser.but if it's my last dime or so cashing is my only option since if i dont cash i'll be gone for good with no way to get more money.

Ok, nevermind on playing not to lose.

What you're doing is referred to as "playing scared". Why don't you deposit $50 into a site, at least for the bonus alone, so you don't have to play with scared money?

[Outlaw]

i've busted with AA 1 man before the is cost me money,i'm not scared to play that kind of hands but if it means NEVER being able to play again i'll fold no matter what if i only have enough cash to play 1 more if i dont cash.If i get up to enough to play 5 or 6 more i'll play looser.but if it's my last dime or so cashing is my only option since if i dont cash i'll be gone for good with no way to get more money.

Some advice. Never be satisfied with less than 1st place in a tournament or SNG. ALWAYS play to win. All of the money is at the top. Run the numbers.. is it better to barely cash 15/20 times or win 1/20 with no other cashes? Hell, you probably make more with one 4th out of the 20 than with 15/20 marginal cashes.

Check out the stats of the best players on http://www.officialpokerrankings.com/. They all cash in the 15%-18% range but they have tons of 1sts, a few less 2nds, a few less 3rds and shitloads of FTs. Also notice that they bust out half the time in the middle part of the tourney when they are going for broke to build a chipstack for the final few tables so they can survive the "minefield."

Rear Poker Tournament Formula by Snyder.

Now, go win and if you get 2nd, be pissed off for a few days as you should.

Keep us updated on your progress.

O

[tncatfish43]

i have no way of depositing any money.if i did i wouldn't be scared.i've tried every way i could think of and pokerstars wont accept any of them.my bank card doesnt work i cant e-check,the pre paid mastercards and visa they sell around here dont work'and i dont have credit card.yes i admit i play scared money,but with no way to get any more on it sometimes it's either cash or never play again.Do you have any suggestions on how to put money on it,I cant really afford western union it has $100 min and it cost about $30 to use it

[Jason]

When I used Western Union, they only charged $15.

[kb coolman]

i've busted with AA 1 man before the is cost me money,i'm not scared to play that kind of hands but if it means NEVER being able to play again i'll fold no matter what if i only have enough cash to play 1 more if i dont cash.If i get up to enough to play 5 or 6 more i'll play looser.but if it's my last dime or so cashing is my only option since if i dont cash i'll be gone for good with no way to get more money.

Ok, nevermind on playing not to lose.

There are times when folding AA/KK/AK pre-flop is allowable in tournament play. It is on the bubble, and depends on position and stack sizes.

For instance, we're on the bubble, you hold AA in position and will be ITM after the next player exits. Three shories before you go all-in, you fold. Yes, you have equity in the hand, but it's not a good risk given that two of these players are about to bust. And playing AA multiway just sucks ballz. I'll fold here and go hyper aggresive once the bubble bursts.

Of course, this is NEVER applicable early in a tourney, ITM, or in a cash game.

[tncatfish43]

i never do it early only when the money is going to be reached in 2 or 3 hands,espicaly when it's hand for hand play.early to mid tourney it's very hard if not impossible to push me of AA KK or AK

no, you don't fold AA on the bubble
ever
this is because even though you'll lose sometimes with it, you'll place first way more ofen when you double up with it, or quintuple up with it

that's bad advice

the only time you fold AA pf is in a sattelite when a big stack pushes into you and you're waiting for a super small stack to bust (top x spots place)
unfortunately I called
fortunately I won, but it was pointless to do so

[tncatfish43]

my main goal is profit and being able to play more tourneys.if i bust out 1 man before the cash and can't play anymore because i'm broke and cant get any more $$ put on account.I have to insure i'll be able to play more.When i build up a little more BR i'll play to win but with 1 or no buy ins left i need to cash.I would play differenent if i had 10 or 15 buy ins left.I love the game so much it would upset me a lot more not being able to play it,than any bad beat ever could.I only started with 40 cent won on a freeroll.

[tncatfish43]

iopq is that your pic if so you are gorgous

[kb coolman]

my main goal is profit and being able to play more tourneys.if i bust out 1 man before the cash and can't play anymore because i'm broke and cant get any more $$ put on account.I have to insure i'll be able to play more.When i build up a little more BR i'll play to win but with 1 or no buy ins left i need to cash.I would play differenent if i had 10 or 15 buy ins left.I love the game so much it would upset me a lot more not being able to play it,than any bad beat ever could.I only started with 40 cent won on a freeroll.

You're at a point now where you a properly rolled for the $0.10 tourneys, so don't be too afraid of the bad beats. That's what bankroll management is for. Read up on the SNG/Tourney tactics, put them to use, and crush these super-micros like a bug. You'll have your own Chris Ferguson story in a year from now.

iopq is that your pic if so you are gorgous

lol no

[bjsaust]

still confused on how to do it?I turned a free 40 cents into $4.06 would it be a ROI of 9.0 or .13 ?

You're doing it wrong. Winnings divided by initial investment:

$4.06-$0.40 = $3.66 in winnings.

$3.66/$0.40 = 9.15, or 915%

Of course, this is irrelevant if you're initial investment is 'Free'. Then your ROI is infinite.

This is (almost certainly) wrong btw. Its not by initial investment, its by total investment, or in poker terms, the total amount of buyins. So if you entered a single 40c tourney and won $4.06 then you have that ROI, but if you played multiple tourneys to build up to that amount then it starts to shrink dramatically.

[Airles™]

iopq is that your pic if so you are gorgous

lol no

[Deuce Blue]

Is this whole thread a level??

[kb coolman]

still confused on how to do it?I turned a free 40 cents into $4.06 would it be a ROI of 9.0 or .13 ?

You're doing it wrong. Winnings divided by initial investment:

$4.06-$0.40 = $3.66 in winnings.

$3.66/$0.40 = 9.15, or 915%

Of course, this is irrelevant if you're initial investment is 'Free'. Then your ROI is infinite.

This is (almost certainly) wrong btw. Its not by initial investment, its by total investment, or in poker terms, the total amount of buyins. So if you entered a single 40c tourney and won $4.06 then you have that ROI, but if you played multiple tourneys to build up to that amount then it starts to shrink dramatically.

From my earlier post:

you don't want to calculate ROI over your entire BR. It needs to be calulated on a tourney by tourney basis, then averaged out over time.

[tncatfish43]

i would like to thank you good people for your help,god bless you all