Some Encouragement for New Players

[spoonitnow]

I'm not picking on anyone in particular with this because I honestly don't know anyone who specifically fits the description, I'm just throwing this out there: if you've been at any level 10nl or lower for 100k hands you need to find a new fucking hobby, like seriously. The following is why:

You aren't working hard enough at getting better to get more out of this game than you're going to end up putting into it, and I don't mean just money.

So seriously, even if it is just a hobby, get on the fucking ball. Know what I mean?

[will641]

this is actually very good advice. if you cant beat <25nl over 100k hands, you really should be at a cross road in your poker career. either realize one of two things: 1) you are currently a bad player, but are sick of being bad and willing to do what it takes. 2) realize you are not a winning player and be okay with it, or just stop playing.

[bjsaust]

One real turning point for me, was when I realised getting better wasnt going to happen from passive learning. I think a lot of people (myself included once upon a time) believe that just reading FTR regularly, and the occasional poker book will be enough to make us winning players. Its not (or not more than marginal). It requires active learning. A deliberate attempt to get better, and not just assuming that the mindless entertainment we get from reading a message board will do the job.

[wellrounded08]

If I gather up some hands from my DB, Would one of you mind taking a look a them VIA PM?

[Stacks]

If I gather up some hands from my DB, Would one of you mind taking a look a them VIA PM?

Why not just post them?? You would get more active feedback, and it would help others who might have the same issues. Plus it might start a discussion that would better us all as players.

Also wellrounded08, from your posts it seems you are actively trying to get better, and that you willing to give what it takes. Keep up the good work. And I think it would do you alot of good to check out the internet relay channel thread (link can be found in my signature "Come chat with us"), and come join us in the channel. Alot of good players there always willing to help.

[d0zer]

As much as I love spoon's tough love, the real encouragement for new players can be found here:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...7e693674ec4caa

[Jack Sawyer]

So seriously, even if it is just a hobby, get on the fucking ball. Know what I mean?

not necessarily.

some people just play for the fuck of it. these people will naturally get on the fucking ball when they feel they are ready to get on the fucking ball imo.

its not because you have X roll you have to play at Y level. its all about finding your own, personal, comfort level and then playing optimally.

in my specific case, this comfort level is attained by playing super overrolled. am I costing myself money? most likely, yes. will I move up just because I'm theoretically rolled to do so? nope, until I feel like it.


The beauty of Poker is that its not a game where you have to "level up" in order to "beat bigger monsters". You play at your own pace, you dictate your own path. When you feel you are ready to try a new level, or a new game, you try it. Fail, drop down or switch back. No time lines, no artificial pressure. And specially, no peer pressure if you are in the right mindset.



Basically, whatever works for you, you should stick with it. Fuck the world.

[sarbox68]

Basically, whatever works for you, you should stick with it. Fuck the world.

+1

I get Spoon's point... I also think it really depends on why you're playing. I still f-in suck at the bass but damn it if I'm not pulling that b!tch out a couple of times a week 'cause it's fun and it's a hobby I don't HAVE to get better at to enjoy.

I'm king overrolled here, will likely stay that way, and will prolly never play higher than $100NL just 'cause I'm not sure I'll ever have the risk appetite for it. That being said, I think part of Spoon's point for me is that part of getting better is forcing yourself out of your comfort zone... and better players are at higher limits... so that to me is def +1

[Stacks]

Not doing more than the average is what keeps the average down. – William M. Winans

All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy. – Scott Alexander

We must overcome the notion that we must be regular. It robs you of the chance to be extraordinary and leads you to the mediocre. – Uta Hagen

Mediocrity - Mediocre ability, achievement, or performance (Dictionary.com)

Why strive for it?? Instead, shouldn’t we set our goals at an almost unattainable plateau and work our asses off until we reach them? We all obviously understand that, with regards to poker, the best player will have the best results over the long run. We should be doing everything we can to ensure that our results will be the best possible.

Some players don’t mind dropping a few bucks a week to play a game they view as fun, or to kill time (losing players). Others still look at poker as a hobby, but believe that it should pay for itself, thus they play and win just enough to do that (breakeven players). However, there is still a small group of players that have a different outlook on poker. They feel that their time is worth some sort of monetary value. Therefore, they take the time and put forth the effort to ensure that they be paid for the time they are investing (winning players). And the individuals who put forth the most effort are generally the individuals who are rewarded the most for their time.

Poker takes time. There is a large number of skill sets that must be developed. However, if you put forth the right amount of effort you will start seeing the results at an accelerated pace. While there is a great deal of knowledge to be learned on this site, it should be no substitute to your own desire and willpower to become better. You should actively engage in activities that will better you as a player. You should always look to understand something new, to expand on a concept, or even just talk to fellow players about poker. All will do wonders for your game. You will begin to better as a player, while also making more money for your time. Which I’m pretty sure we can all agree is desirable.

I don’t know about everyone else, but if I were to say play football, I wouldn’t expect to start in the games if I sat out during practice. The same should go for poker. You shouldn’t expect to be “crushing it” if you don’t actively engage in getting better. So try, study, learn, and become better, which will inevitably lead to winning, and profits. So, if you say you are only playing for fun, or to kill time, this seems as if it can only help.

Remember,
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” - unknown

[sarbox68]

Not doing more than the average is what keeps the average down. – William M. Winans

All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy. – Scott Alexander

We must overcome the notion that we must be regular. It robs you of the chance to be extraordinary and leads you to the mediocre. – Uta Hagen

Mediocrity - Mediocre ability, achievement, or performance (Dictionary.com)

Why strive for it?? Instead, shouldn’t we set our goals at an almost unattainable plateau and work our asses off until we reach them? We all obviously understand that, with regards to poker, the best player will have the best results over the long run. We should be doing everything we can to ensure that our results will be the best possible.

Some players don’t mind dropping a few bucks a week to play a game they view as fun, or to kill time (losing players). Others still look at poker as a hobby, but believe that it should pay for itself, thus they play and win just enough to do that (breakeven players). However, there is still a small group of players that have a different outlook on poker. They feel that their time is worth some sort of monetary value. Therefore, they take the time and put forth the effort to ensure that they be paid for the time they are investing (winning players). And the individuals who put forth the most effort are generally the individuals who are rewarded the most for their time.

Poker takes time. There is a large number of skill sets that must be developed. However, if you put forth the right amount of effort you will start seeing the results at an accelerated pace. While there is a great deal of knowledge to be learned on this site, it should be no substitute to your own desire and willpower to become better. You should actively engage in activities that will better you as a player. You should always look to understand something new, to expand on a concept, or even just talk to fellow players about poker. All will do wonders for your game. You will begin to better as a player, while also making more money for your time. Which I’m pretty sure we can all agree is desirable.

I don’t know about everyone else, but if I were to say play football, I wouldn’t expect to start in the games if I sat out during practice. The same should go for poker. You shouldn’t expect to be “crushing it” if you don’t actively engage in getting better. So try, study, learn, and become better, which will inevitably lead to winning, and profits. So, if you say you are only playing for fun, or to kill time, this seems as if it can only help.

Remember,
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” - unknown

nh sir...

[Ragnar4]

I'm not picking on anyone in particular with this because I honestly don't know anyone who specifically fits the description, I'm just throwing this out there: if you've been at any level 10nl or lower for 100k hands you need to find a new fucking hobby, like seriously. The following is why:

You aren't working hard enough at getting better to get more out of this game than you're going to end up putting into it, and I don't mean just money.

So seriously, even if it is just a hobby, get on the fucking ball. Know what I mean?

this is me.

Maybe I ought to quit

[Ragnar4]

I'm not picking on anyone in particular with this because I honestly don't know anyone who specifically fits the description, I'm just throwing this out there: if you've been at any level 10nl or lower for 100k hands you need to find a new fucking hobby, like seriously. The following is why:

You aren't working hard enough at getting better to get more out of this game than you're going to end up putting into it, and I don't mean just money.

So seriously, even if it is just a hobby, get on the fucking ball. Know what I mean?

this is me.

Maybe I ought to quit

[daven]

it's all about motivation i guess... and what you want from the game.

I've just taken three weeks off playing poker. I did more cool non-poker shit in those weeks than is typical in a week when I play 10-15hrs of poker.
There is a cost of playing poker, life is about more than an lcd screen. I don't watch tv or play video games, haven't done much of either since i was 18.

I am, however, planning on continuing to play a lot of poker (= staring at an LCD). If there wasn't a financial reward to doing so, I imagine i would have got bored a while ago. I enjoy the process of gaining ability in whatever it is I'm doing. I like the challenges (understanding and discipline) of poker.

I guess the reasons for playing poker are as varied as the people playing.

To those who play as a hobby and don't have associated goals - All power to you! we all live life as we choose to, for our own reasons. If that's what makes you tick, enjoy it...

But, if you want to get better:

i've recently re-acquainted myself with the joys of studying to become better at poker. It works.
if you want to get better and have played 100k+ hands at 10nl and below without becoming a winning player, then go study. Go look at ISF's old blog and print out all his strategy posts. Abandon the forum for a week and instead spend the time in the Poker Strategy section reading all the articles. Spend a couple of hours reading and thinking on each of these articles. Taking notes. etc. Start winning, winning is kinda fun...


also:

Remember,
“Luck is hopefully what happens when I get it in bad” - unknown

FYP

[spoonitnow]

Yes I know it's so fucking horrible that someone would suggest that you could actually succeed at something if you quit being a bitch and actually put forth a little fucking effort.

Instead you can provide yourself an excuse by saying "it's just for fun" or that it's "just a hobby". Then it becomes much like the college student who does just enough to get by, and when he makes a B or a C on a paper says to himself, "I could have made an A+ if I tried." The thing is, you really don't know, and you'll never find out because there is comfort in having this fantasy scenario that plays out "if you tried".

How about this: if you can't put forth effort in something that you don't think matters (ie: poker as a "hobby") then what makes you think that you could ever put forth adequate effort in something that does matter?

[wellrounded08]

I have to say, I'm completely with Spoon on this one. The Idea that someone wouldn't want to be the best at whatever they are doing is rather unfathomable to me. My particular outlook on poker has to deal purely with the idea of Grinding. I want to make money from this game the same way the people who invented it did. In what way is an individual getting satisfaction from constantly loosing to other players online? Online poker doesn't have the women, the drinks, the pretty lights. It's not Vegas. I'm truly interested to know; who sits at their computer for a few hours on the weekend looses 50 bucks and is satisfied. I therefore completely disagree that people loose online poker for "Fun." The fact is they suck and don't know how to get better. If they've already found FTR or another site, and continue to suck, then they suck at life because they don't take some simple steps to improve. Accepted Mediocrity is a disease that plagues mankind. "It's just for fun" is as spoon said, the best excuse to convince yourself that you could be great...If you tried.

There is an annual event which I cannot recall the name of. It's a streetball event in which a collection of talented streetball players gather and play basketball. This event is televised, and there are very interesting quotes from these events by the players. Some players suggest that they could play for the NBA, but that's "not the lifestyle" they want. BULLSHIT! Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. If you could make millions a year on this game you love YOU WOULD. You would however have to make an attempt. And what's better than Trying and Failing? Not trying and convincing yourself that you could IF you tried. TRY. FAIL. TRY AGAIN. Pussies.

[jyms]

My problem has always been exactly what Spoon says. Not so much in the fact that that I treat this like a hobby, but I don't study hard enough to get better. I have always sacrificed study for playing hands. I have grinded out 50K, 60K and even 70K hands in a month playing winning, losing and tons of BE poker. My haste to get good at this game has somehow found me going against conventional wisdom of Study, study and more study, and has me doing what my sports roots had me do to get better, practice. Too much scrimmage and not enough learning basics has made me slow down my progress.

I always seem to make the mistake of grinding harder and more hands when running bad or losing sessions. Instead of taking a step back and making adjustments I seem to just go into a long haul mode and play a ton to get back to even. I have had months of not looking at my HM or PT in the past and have really attempted to stop this lately. I have taken to getting a coaching seession or two, and will definitely get more sessions in the near future.

[sarbox68]

I have to say, I'm completely with Spoon on this one. The Idea that someone wouldn't want to be the best at whatever they are doing is rather unfathomable to me.

I get where you're coming from, and also understand Spoon's reason for posting what he did. This is, after all, a site for people to get better at poker... and a lot of the regs invest a sh!tload of time and effort (all for free...) helping donksh!ts like me improve. So it's actually kind of insulting when someone sucks that up and then isn't willing to put in some hard work to actually use it for value...

That being said... I'll just add another perspective to the quote. I got a limited amount of time, and a f-ckload of interests. Personally, I'd rather spread my time around a ton of different things, enjoying all of them, being better at some than others, but getting to the end of my life goin f-ck... i pretty much tried just about all I wanted to.

This pretty much means I'm not gonna be the best at anything, 'cause there'll always be people willing to put more of their time into fewer things than I am. And I made peace with that years ago... I don't need to be the best at something, and don't want to if it means trading off too many other things. It ain't about work ethic, and it definitely ain't about being a pussy... it's just priorities.

That being said... don't whine if you're not willing to put in the time. Nothing pisses me off more than people giving the "God I wish I could do that..." envy bullsh!t , like being good at something is some inalienable right, and forget the single focused hard m-thaf-in work that the person who can had to put into to get there...

[aka_red]

Not doing more than the average is what keeps the average down. – William M. Winans

All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy. – Scott Alexander

We must overcome the notion that we must be regular. It robs you of the chance to be extraordinary and leads you to the mediocre. – Uta Hagen

Mediocrity - Mediocre ability, achievement, or performance (Dictionary.com)

Why strive for it?? Instead, shouldn’t we set our goals at an almost unattainable plateau

LIFE TILT

/WRISTS

seriously though. in my opinion if your half assing it your wasting everyone's time. also keep in mind opportunity costs and levels of happiness.

opportunity cost
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppurtunity_Cost

marginality
http://en.wikipedia.org
/wiki/Marginalism#Important_marginal_concepts {link fixed/jyms}


in this case marginality is used with the happiness variable instead of cost or benefit. etc.

[spoonitnow]

I have to say, I'm completely with Spoon on this one. The Idea that someone wouldn't want to be the best at whatever they are doing is rather unfathomable to me.

I get where you're coming from, and also understand Spoon's reason for posting what he did. This is, after all, a site for people to get better at poker... and a lot of the regs invest a sh!tload of time and effort (all for free...) helping donksh!ts like me improve. So it's actually kind of insulting when someone sucks that up and then isn't willing to put in some hard work to actually use it for value...

That being said... I'll just add another perspective to the quote. I got a limited amount of time, and a f-ckload of interests. Personally, I'd rather spread my time around a ton of different things, enjoying all of them, being better at some than others, but getting to the end of my life goin f-ck... i pretty much tried just about all I wanted to.

This pretty much means I'm not gonna be the best at anything, 'cause there'll always be people willing to put more of their time into fewer things than I am. And I made peace with that years ago... I don't need to be the best at something, and don't want to if it means trading off too many other things. It ain't about work ethic, and it definitely ain't about being a pussy... it's just priorities.

That being said... don't whine if you're not willing to put in the time. Nothing pisses me off more than people giving the "God I wish I could do that..." envy bullsh!t , like being good at something is some inalienable right, and forget the single focused hard m-thaf-in work that the person who can had to put into to get there...

Your entire post, including your own choices and whatnot, tie in perfectly with what I'm talking about here. For the purpose clarity: I agree with you 100%.

[Ragnar4]

My question concerning all this is:

What about me? I've read all of the strategy posts here, twice. I've watched all of FTR's videos. More than a few times. I'm currently reading-re-reading and memorizing Theory and practice. Yet I'm still a consistent loser.

Am I lazy? Or is it possible I'm just not going to get it. Because that's the question I've been asking myself the last 20k hands.

Seriously. Some of you guys think that just because you made it, it's easy, and you get on your high horse and shout. "Just try harder." I'm dedicating 1-2 hours a day to play and theory and practice on top of work and having a family that includes a 19 MO daughter.

I honestly don't get either side of the argument! As a winning player, don't you want to encourage players like me to keep losing? Where does your profit come from if not from me?

As a player still willing to learn, and being a consistent loser over the last few years and 100k plus hands, why are you telling me to give up on a forum dedicated to helping me get better?

[Jack Sawyer]

Ragnar,

no. you are trying too hard. at some point, it will all "click"

you and only you will know when this is, and how to achieve this

it sounds like cliche, but this is also true: if you do not apply theory to practice, you will fail. do not forget this.

then you'll feel the gears clicking in place.

[wellrounded08]

Wow, I had no idea. That's very serious to me, because you give me advise. I hate it if I sound like the ungrateful newb, but no joke, that's pretty fucked up. Every reg around her who's a consistant looser should have a little star next to their name. It's not a personal thing ragnar, but I have to assume the advise I get here is comming from a solid source, but if it's coming from a consistant(that's important) looser, then it's not obsurd for me to assume that it is fundamentaly unsound. If you were loosing at higher levels it would be different. But we're talking micro's.... Again man, it's not personal, but I'm going to have to take everything you say w/ a grain of salt. I really hate it if I look like a jerk, but this seems pretty big to me.

[bjsaust]

Serious question deserves a serious answer Ragnar.

Maybe you're not? I asked this question of some senior members quite a few months ago. Why dont people on FTR get better? Never made sense to me. There were a number of interesting answers, but one thing a few people agreed on is that some people just wont get it. For whatever reason their mind isnt wired right, or they reach their capacity. Thats just reality in any pursuit. We all have a limit beyond which study and practise just wont take us, not just in Poker but in anything.

That said, I go back to my first reply. I started becoming a LOT better when I became active in my learning, rather than passive. Learning poker isnt about memorising stuff (and definately not about just skimming, but you sound like you're beyond that). When you read some strategy or advice, or you watch something interesting in a video, or you finish a chapter in a book, take some time to really think about it. Think about scenarios where you could apply that advice. Think about scenarios where it would be wrong to apply that advice. Really concentrate on trying to figure out the WHY of advice rather than just learning the advice by rote.

I really believe its that time we spend internalising and THINKING about poker concepts and advice that make a huge difference.

Heres one angle. I always consider that any advice, rule or theorom of poker has an implied "Generally " tagged onto the start of it. Rarely is it expressed that way, but its there. Spend some time working out what makes it generally true, and therefore when or what circumstances make it not true, and y9u'll have learned something intrinsic about poker that you can use in a wide variety of circumstances, rather than just a rule that you apply blindly.

In short, whilst maybe you just wont get it, for now just try different approaches. Its like the old saying "Do what you've always done and you'll get what you've always got". Keep trying to learn, but try learning in different ways. Some people probably need to do more study and less playing. Others probably need to do less study and more playing. Stick at it and experiment to find what you need to improve.

[Ragnar4]

Wow, I had no idea. That's very serious to me, because you give me advise. I hate it if I sound like the ungrateful newb, but no joke, that's pretty fucked up. Every reg around her who's a consistant looser should have a little star next to their name. It's not a personal thing ragnar, but I have to assume the advise I get here is comming from a solid source, but if it's coming from a consistant(that's important) looser, then it's not obsurd for me to assume that it is fundamentaly unsound. If you were loosing at higher levels it would be different. But we're talking micro's.... Again man, it's not personal, but I'm going to have to take everything you say w/ a grain of salt. I really hate it if I look like a jerk, but this seems pretty big to me.

Each and every time I give advice, or weigh in on what I'm thinking, if I'm terribly off base, a solid reg will always A) Correct me and B) explain why what I said is wrong. Besides, I'm pretty sure anyone can dispense on about 90% of the topics in the Beginners lounge and be right. I don't dispense advise at the Highstakes forum, I ask questions. I play devils advocate in the 6max forum. Each forum I play a different role because of what I have yet to learn.

Sometimes I will have to Dig for (B). I don't think you're a jerk. Also when I say I'm a consistent loser, I'm not talking about pissing away a BI every time I sit down. I'm -.25 ptbt/100 over a long, long, LONG period of time. I have just a few leaks to plug before it does click

--I'm just taking issue with the fact that I think Spoon doesn't have a pot to pee in because either side of the issue he's pressing on this, a poker players forum, is counterintuitive to what we as poker players are taught to think
A) Take your money from the weakest, most terribad players.
B) If you're here, and willing to learn, you'll get through it and we're here as a learning tool, no matter how bad you are.

[wellrounded08]

[/slight overreaction]

Ragnar man, that was not meant to call you out or anything, that is NOT what I was doing. I know any advice that's not solid is corrected around here, and with the research you've done, I'm sure it's all pretty sound. I just would hate to think that I'm getting advice from people who can't apply it themselves(in general, not you! -.25 is nothing, especially when compared to the numbers I had in my head!)
Hopefully it's understood where I'm comming from. I honestly feel like I put alot of work in, and put alot of value in the advice I get from FTR. Under the assumption that those that I get it from are better players than myself. Of which, you ragnar are still one of(easily)

[Stacks]

I have a few things to add.. If you truly want to get better, you will need to surround yourself with a group of individuals who are consistently trying to better themselves as well. That can be found at #flopturnriver irc channel. If anyone has a soft skin and doesn't know how to take jokes, then you probably shouldn't come, becuase we do joke around. But in the same breath there is a shitload of help thrown out everyday, and many topics discussed that only get touched on the forums every once in a while.

Next, Ragnar, it seems as if you are putting in alot of effort, just maybe doing it the wrong way. As bj said, you can learn from reading articles, books, the forums, etc., but all of that will fall short of what you learn on your own studying concepts, or talking or more advanced players. That's what the internet relay channel will provide. You will come with a question, and instead of saying this is why you do this dummie, generally a player[s] will talk to you about it and then it will create more questions. And by the time you answer all these questions you have a more profound understanding of the concept than you would had someone told you the exact play to make.

And I totally agree with Jack Sawyer, that one day it will just click. I've had a few days like that, where I've been thinking on a concept for a while, talking to people, etc, and then next thing I know I actually understand a large portion of the reasoning. I have to say that i disagree with bjsaust in the statement that he made regarding reaching one's capacity. It could possibly be true, but I just can't wrap my head around not being able to improve at something. I believe with hard work and maximum effort you can always continue to improve.

[bjsaust]

I dont know how many active members FTR has, but you'd have spare fingers left on one hand after you count the number capable of being as good as Sauce, no matter how much study/practise they do. Its just not within their capacity. To think otherwise is to assume we could all be olympic sprinters if only we worked hard enough, or we could all get PhDs if we studied hard enough, or whatever.

If it makes you feel better, you could use the mathmatical term that the amount we all can improve will eventually approach zero.

[swiggidy]

Rag,
1) Stop reading the HS forum.
2) Stop reading the SHNL forum

All you need is knowing how to value bet and a little bit of table selection. If you ever make a play because "there's no way he can call here" and he calls with 3rd pair that beats you, I would argue that you made as bad of a play by betting as he made by calling.

[spoonitnow]

To Ragnar4: You feel like you're working really hard but not getting anywhere. It's possible that you need to work smarter instead of harder. My suggestions would be to frequent the IRC channel (there's a link in my signature to show you how to get there) to discuss poker, and to also post more hands. If nothing else, I suggest your stop spreading yourself out over multiple games and focus your limited time for study on one single game. For example, your signature suggests you play NLHE cash, NLHE SNGs, and your last posted hand was in the Limit Hold'em forum.

And if you don't believe me, ask Stacks what he was playing 4 months ago and what he's playing now. I've also sent you a PM to talk about a couple of things that you might want to keep private.

[aka_red]

get a coach ragnar and quit sucking.

[spoonitnow]

get a coach ragnar and quit sucking.

Quit soliciting in my thread imo.

[aka_red]

Quit threading in my solicitation.

In all seriousness though it sounds like Ragnar would need some hand holding to complete this 'step' of his poker journey. I think a major problem alot of people have is they assume that just reading is enough. There is alot more to learning than book smarts. Try broadening your horizons for learning, talk to people about things. Some people do not do well without some sort of immediate responses (ex just reading). My guess is you have a more hands on type learning style. Forcing yourself into learning through a different style will make your life way more difficult than it needs to be. Me for example, I learn by talking to people and through experiences. I never read books in school etc. I just listen to lectures. Since this is learning I would assume the same style you used for school which was best for you would work here.

[daven]

i'm still happy to coach ya red

[Pig_Vomit]

I am officially inspired

[lolzzz_321]

has ragnar posted any stats, wtf?

[Stacks]

has ragnar posted any stats, wtf?

Was coming in here to tell him to do just that. Ragnar, post up some pokertracker/HEM stats in one of the forums and let some better players look over that for ya. Should help a bit.

[d0zer]

Quit threading in my solicitation.

I think I may have some sort of weird fetish cause this line gave me wood ops