Sick of 200NL hands yet? :)

[ChrisTheFish]

Hand 1: Villain is unknown

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($211.15)
UTG+1 ($200.00)
CO ($192.00)
BTN ($294.75)
SB ($27.25)
Hero ($746.34)
[UTG+1 posted $2]

Pre-flop: ($5, 6 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, UTG+1 checks, 2 folds, SB calls $1, Hero checks

Flop: ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, UTG+1 raises to $10, SB folds, Hero calls $6

Turn: ($26, 2 players)
Hero bets $18, UTG+1 calls $18

River: ($62, 2 players)
Hero bets $41, UTG+1 raises to $90, Hero folds

Final Pot: $190.00

UTG+1 wins $190 ( won +$70 )
Hero lost -$71.00
SB lost -$2.00



Hand 2: Again villain is unknown :\

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($200.00)
UTG+1 ($242.50)
CO ($521.30)
Hero ($249.00)
SB ($210.35)
BB ($670.50)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BTN
3 folds, Hero raises to $8, SB calls $7, 1 fold

Flop: ($18, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, SB raises to $42, Hero calls $28

Turn: ($102, 2 players)
SB goes all-in $160.35, Hero folds

Final Pot: $259.35

SB wins $259.35 ( won +$49 )
Hero lost -$50.00

[will641]

1) i dont really see anything he raises that we beat. who makes a miny raise with the :Qc

2) this is absurd. i call this. what is he repping? a set boat doesnt play it this aggro. i mean reads are pretty critical in this hand.

[mixchange]

Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.
Hand 2 - shove or fold flop

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

1). flop c/r works good in unraised pots 100BB deep w/ non nut draws, weak top pairs, etc. can't fold river. bet bigger on turn/river.

2). rough math here but 2-x would need to make up like 2/3rds of his range for a call to be slightly -EV.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

Hand 2 - shove or fold flop

this would be bad because often we are facing a bluff or pair over which we have two overcards. we are IP and have a couple of options on the turn depending on what villain does.

[Genitruc]

hand 1 looks good

hand 2 I'd call quick

[Alexos]

INSTA SNAPCALL FISTPUMP HAND #2

[Ragnar4]

Hand 1. Why would you go to the river if you didn't intend to call the river?

Hand 2. Ruuuuuv pokah rong taaahayme! Instashove.

[minSim]

I call both hands pretty quickly.

1). flop c/r works good in unraised pots 100BB deep w/ non nut draws, weak top pairs, etc. can't fold river. bet bigger on turn/river.

Could you clearify this a bit?

[The Odds God]

Hand 1 is standard, now you have to fold, but it is close, since this idiot posted UTG. Against this guy, I actually wouldn't mind a push here because he might convince himself you are bluffing and I think he is just as likely to call an all in than a small bet with a smaller flush but he won't raise you without an Ac usually.

Hand 2, I would 3bet the flop, but your line is good also. Now snapcall.

[ChrisTheFish]

Damnnnn im such a nit

In hand 2, i'm more inclined to 3 bet shove OOP..

Villain has been @ the table for a short while, havn't seen him get out of line or do anything crazy.

[nutsinho]

1 is fold
2 is OMG CALL WHAT ARE YOU DOING???

[BigLRIP]

1 is fold
2 is OMG CALL WHAT ARE YOU DOING???

[will641]

Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.

where is the logic in this? since he posted he is incapable of having the :Ac:, or a boat?

[The Odds God]

Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.

where is the logic in this? since he posted he is incapable of having the :Ac:, or a boat?

Since he posted UTG, he will call you with lower flushes. However, he probably won't raise you. That's why now you have to fold. But if you are not results oriented, I like the push on the river against this guy.

[sauce123]

hand 2 should be all in on flop 100%

[Viscount Vic]

1. fold
2. fold on flop, board is paired, you could be drawing dead and believe it or not, you dont actually have anything yet but queen high. Give it up. Turn is definate fold.

Overall you played it better then most would.

[Galapogos]

2. fold on flop, board is paired, you could be drawing dead

What about all the times you're not?

[Ash256]

2. fold on flop, board is paired, you could be drawing dead and believe it or not, you dont actually have anything yet but queen high. Give it up. Turn is definate fold.

You've missed the point. Think about what villain has here.

[thizzSantaCruz]

anyone like 3 betting the flop in hand 1

[The Odds God]

anyone like 3 betting the flop in hand 1

I don't like it, since it is a limped pot.

[mixchange]

Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.

where is the logic in this? since he posted he is incapable of having the :Ac:, or a boat?

Since he posted UTG, he will call you with lower flushes. However, he probably won't raise you. That's why now you have to fold. But if you are not results oriented, I like the push on the river against this guy.

I guess it is a fold, but I think a call is fine too... just soooo hard for me to drop a pot like this to a poster. A lot of these guys are playing for fun and love to bluff. I call down very light against posters. IMO, this is closer than you might think because of the donkage factor

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

I call both hands pretty quickly.

1). flop c/r works good in unraised pots 100BB deep w/ non nut draws, weak top pairs, etc. can't fold river. bet bigger on turn/river.

Could you clearify this a bit?

let's say chris had lead out on the flop with 9-7 or some other 9-x hand instead of K-2cc. If he gets raised on the flop, he is in a difficult spot where he almost always (definitely in this case) has to fold his top pair. One reason why he has to do this is because he is going to be out of position in a pot where the stacks are relatively deep since the pot wasn't raised preflop.

If his flop bet is called, there are many turn cards chris does not want to see (i.e. clubs, J, Q, K, A). Usually he would lead out and have to fold if raised, shut down if called. Even on a relatively safe turn chris can't really put more pressure on his opponent on the river because his hand is too weak, so he has to hope for a check/check on the river.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

oh yeah and so then the benefit of a flop check/raise then is that you have the potential to take the pot down without the hand progressing further (particularly good with weak top pair type hands), or if you have a draw you can often build a bigger pot if the turn/river completes your hand (bigger than in situations where you lead out and your bet was called).

[minSim]

Vi,

To summarize, we don't like betting out flop, because:
1. we have to fold to a flop raise
2. we have to bet/fold most turns
3. when turn called we have a difficult river spot, where we likely have to check/fold.

I don't really get how these don't apply to a flop check/raise, with TPMK. Don't all of them apply to the c/r as well?

Also, yes we do take it down with a flop c/r often....but aren't we as well with leading out?
Ofcourse more with a c/r, but it's only folding out worse hands isn't it.

Or is it that a flop c/r will fold out about all mediocre or air hands from villains range and makes his range more face up, so we can play more perfect against it relatively easy on future streets?
(which will include c/fing a decent amount without having to worry about folding the best hand I assume)

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

yeah i think you pretty much got it, and yeah it would apply to TPMK as well