Theoretical situation

[IowaSkinsFan]

you are facing a very light three bettor.

What factors do you consider when deciding how/when you are going to defend your range. What factors make you decide to:
-Defend preflop (light 4 betting)
-Defend on the flop (raising cbets)
-Defend on turn or river (floating)

[gabe]

i dont defend my range i attack their range!

[IowaSkinsFan]

i dont defend my range i attack their range!

lol i think this is a joke (i lol'd) but if its not that's exactly what i meant!

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Board texture? lol

[IowaSkinsFan]

Blah i wish there were more HU cash players.

[The Odds God]

It is such a general question it is hard to give an answer. It depends on a feel.

If villain is a donkey or steaming, I don't recommend light 4 betting because he might just decide to gamble and you are probably taking the worst of it. I prefer floating against that guy or usually I just let them 3 bet me and I tighten up my raising range or start limping maybe. They also expect you to 4 bet them so it is probably hard to get away with it.

Generally, I am not a huge fan of floating. I prefer to raise c bets. People are so aggressive (reckless) that you can't rely on them to check to you on the turn a lot of times. I think floating is overused and I usually won't do it without an out (like ace high). With ace high, I am more ready to float, with 6 high, I am more ready to raise a c bet.

What hands do you consider to be 4 betting hands and what hands do you call that guy's 3 bet with? I am uncomfortable in reraised pots.

Probably a lot of bull**** I am talking here because it is such a general question, but just so that we can start a discussion.

[IowaSkinsFan]

You made a lot of good points especially about floating. I've seen the math for fourbetting ranges and most of the time if you're considering to fourbet and call it's Axs and pp's and sc's, although sc's and pp's play pretty well in threebet pots, unless it's like 22-55 or again 54-76s.

Calling threebets it depends on opps range. Some people just threebet high cards so i tend to call with sc's and lower cards a lot. Some people are either doing good hands or sc-weakish hands, and im calling them with high cards i can just stack off with.

I think in general if opp is just being a complete monkey threebetting its much better to fourbet him light rather than take cbets away from him, the more solid he is the more we should be raising the flop cbets. I've never had great success floating either but there are people who will threebet light but refuse to bluff on later streets; I'll float those people.

[The Odds God]

Calling threebets it depends on opps range. Some people just threebet high cards so i tend to call with sc's and lower cards a lot. Some people are either doing good hands or sc-weakish hands, and im calling them with high cards i can just stack off with.

Whether to call a 3 bet with SC and lower cards depends more on a villain's postflop play than on his preflop reraising range. If he bets big a lot, you will have a hard time chasing your draw or he will c bet so much that you won't be able to push him off a hand with your draw if you decide to play aggressively.

I think you should never call a light 3bettor with SC and lower cards if he is a guy who will:
1. bet big on all streets
2. won't fold any pair to a raise if he gets it (denying you fold equity you need to come over the top of his c bet with a gutshot or bottom pair or something like that).

[IowaSkinsFan]

Calling threebets it depends on opps range. Some people just threebet high cards so i tend to call with sc's and lower cards a lot. Some people are either doing good hands or sc-weakish hands, and im calling them with high cards i can just stack off with.

Whether to call a 3 bet with SC and lower cards depends more on a villain's postflop play than on his preflop reraising range. If he bets big a lot, you will have a hard time chasing your draw or he will c bet so much that you won't be able to push him off a hand with your draw if you decide to play aggressively.

I think you should never call a light 3bettor with SC and lower cards if he is a guy who will:
1. bet big on all streets
2. won't fold any pair to a raise if he gets it (denying you fold equity you need to come over the top of his c bet with a gutshot or bottom pair or something like that).

This isn't necessarily true, we just want to play hands that are going to play well against his range when we raise his cbet. He's only floping a pair 35% of the time if he doesn't have one anyways.
So for example if he threebets and you call and flop comes J75 one spade. You have K6ss, i'd raise the guys cbet a ton, because we have a backdoor straight and fd, we have an overcard to any pair, and possibly two to a 5 if he is bet/calling every pair.

I think you have a point though, but i think its just we need to call with cards that are going to have good equity when raising his cbets. sc's are probably better versus more solid threebet ranges, but if the guy is playing like a complete monkey and bet calling a lot (WHICH isnt BAD at all i may add), I'm raising his cbet with any pair i hit on the flop, and pretty much any decent draw against his calling range. A gutshot is about 20% to win against really any hand so its not a big mistake to get it in with one. BUT again, versus the opp your describing its a huge mistake to play him like a nit (unless he's not adjusting his play), and im raising pretty much any draw on the flop anyways.

[The Odds God]

Of course it depends on his reraising range too, not just on his postflop play whether you call his 3bet or not. I think you need to call him with hands that will fare better against his 3betting range, so that you won't be dominated when you both flop something. If the guy is reraising high cards, I would call him with lower cards, like you said, while if he is reraising low, I would call him high. I would much rather call anyone with 56s than with A2o though. You said that before.

"I think you should never call a light 3bettor with SC and lower cards if he is a guy who will:
1. bet big on all streets
2. won't fold any pair to a raise if he gets it (denying you fold equity you need to come over the top of his c bet with a gutshot or bottom pair or something like that)."

That's what I wrote before. A perfect and simple description of this guy I was talking about is: RECKLESS. So my point was that against reckless guys your strategy of calling them with SC's doesn't work. Against reckless guys, you better wait for a hand before you call his reraise preflop in which case it is probably better to repop if you have AT and cold call if you have AA.

But I changed my mind. I think that I should call and raise them more, like you said. It is probably my leak that I try to trap them. The problem is that you don't get big hands in HU that often so you need to playback even if they bet and call a lot.

There are a lot of reckless guys in HU, so I brought that point on.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I think its important though you know the difference between "reckless" and "good reckless." There are a lot of players you can own with slight image manipulation who are reckless, an exampme would probably be H@ns$n, who you've probably played. Then there are those who are "good reckless" where the moment you start to tighten up they do it too. Versus good reckless players, you just have to raise/raise/raise/raise. If some guy is being a complete monkey threebettor, much of the time its better to fourbet them light and take your equity edge, or raise their cbets a ton with really any sort of draw or pair. You should definetely not wait for a hand versus this player or they will win, because they will make the proper adjustments.

[The Odds God]

I meant bad reckless guys. I prefer calling smart reckless guys superaggressive guys.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I meant bad reckless guys. I prefer calling smart reckless guys superaggressive guys.

Yeah i do too, i dont mean to be malicious in my posts at all so i hope its not coming off that way! I'm glad we're getting some discussion on this topic.

[The Odds God]

No, I don't mean anything bad, neither do you. I see we have a HU discussion here. Would be nice if someone else played HUNLCASH at FTR.

[IowaSkinsFan]

No, I don't mean anything bad, neither do you. I see we have a HU discussion here. Would be nice if someone else played HUNLCASH at FTR.

Yeah for real.

[sauce123]

you can also widen ur 4betting range to 99+ AJs+ AQo+ and try to play gigantic pots in position with like 1-3 PSB lefts postflop.

generally hu i think ur gonna be better off raising his bets when u whiff completely and floating when u snag a smallish piece. also, hitting hands and playing them well is a lot more important than either of these things in 3bet pots imo.

[bigspenda73]

No, I don't mean anything bad, neither do you. I see we have a HU discussion here. Would be nice if someone else played HUNLCASH at FTR.

Yeah for real.

I tried yo, you bailed on me