Commited to QQ in 4-bet pot?

[mike2405]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($49.36)
Button ($29.59)
SB ($45.87)
BB ($20.40)
Hero ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q.
Hero raises to $2, MP raises to $8, 3 folds, Hero raises to $24, MP calls $16.

Flop: ($48.75) J, T, 8 (2 players)
Hero: ???


So pretty much every hand that would have called a 4-bet has me beat now with the J and 10 out there except AK. However, I do have outs with a 9 and possibly spades, but he may hold the A or K of spades. With so much money in the pot, even though I'm almost certainly behind, is this an easy push?

[WildBobAA]

Once you 4-bet you're making the decision to go w/ the hand. While you didn't hit a great flop, it's not terrible either as you have outs even if he flopped a set. You have to shove this.

[Pelion]

i wouldnt 4bet an unknown with QQ at 50NL. As played you should probably stick it in.

[mixchange]

Hero pushes AI without hesitation

[bode]

gotta push this. the 4-bet is questionable without reads, but its not *that* bad.

[kmind]

I'd 4-bet a little less here but you have to push now.

[drtofu66]

Ah, Party Poker. Those were the days. Oh, how I miss the sweet bonuses and clueless players.

Tell us poor Yanks who have our faces pressed up against the glass-- is it still as good as we remembered?

Oh-- and if you put ~1/2 your stack in PF, you're well past the point of being committed to the hand. Just make sure you hit the 9s before it's over.

[|~|ypermegachi]

how is 4betting preflop bad?

[sauce123]

yes

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

how is 4betting preflop bad?

In very aggressive games, i think you have to 4bet Q-Q because most of your opponents are 3betting a very wide range. You are 4betting for value.

But in the 1/2 games at Pokerstars, i like to just call 3bets with Q-Q (although i do 4bet A-K). The reason i do this is to c/r or raise a c-bet when the flop does not contain an Ace or a King (i often float a King high flop if the board is dry enough and the opponent is an aggressive 3bettor). I still 4bet A-K because it has more value in a 4bet pot than Q-Q, and i would rather win the pot preflop with A-K since it has much less showdown value than Q-Q. I have found that most of my opponents aren't 3betting so much that 4betting Q-Q is as profitable as playing for stacks on the flop in a 3bet pot.

However if i know a particular villain 3bets a very wide range then i will 4bet Q-Q, with the intention of calling a shove preflop or sticking it in on a non Ace/King flop. However, after about 18k hands, i have only ran into like 3-4 regulars against who i will 4bet Q-Q.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

Yeah, you have to go all in on the flop.

Board: Js Ts 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.581% 42.60% 01.98% 7170 333.00 { QhQs }
Hand 1: 55.419% 53.44% 01.98% 8994 333.00 { QQ+, AKs }


---


Even if he is only calling a 4bet with K-K+,

Board: Js Ts 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.909% 35.76% 00.15% 4248 18.00 { QhQs }
Hand 1: 64.091% 63.94% 00.15% 7596 18.00 { KK+ }

your equity is way too good, considering the money already in the pot.

[snowbird4life]

i wouldnt 4bet an unknown with QQ at 50NL. As played you should probably stick it in.

Yupppp, probably wouldn't 4bet a total unknown at 50nl. As played, even though it looks like theres a decent chance your beat, you have to get it all in.

[Pelion]

Ah, Party Poker. Those were the days. Oh, how I miss the sweet bonuses and clueless players.

Tell us poor Yanks who have our faces pressed up against the glass-- is it still as good as we remembered?

No. The bonuses dont really exist anymore. The players are still pretty bad though.

[Pelion]

how is 4betting preflop bad?

There are far too many people at these stakes who have very tight 3 betting ranges like AK/QQ+, and most of the ones who 3bet worse will fold to a 4bet. In effect, 4 betting turns your hand into a bluff. They either fold preflop (not as often as at higher stakes) or you are up against a worse hand. There are some players who I will 4 bet QQ but not enough to make it a standard play.

Also at higher stakes if you call a 3bet preflop and then go apeshit on a 6 high flop they will still put you on a slowplayed AA and fold their TT/JJ alot. At 50NL if we just call the 3bet preflop we are probably stacking TT/JJ when we both flop overpairs.