betting top pair or ace on the flop?

[icey35]

hey guys, i just started playing NL ring games at ultra low stakes (.5/1) a few weeks ago, and i guess first id just like to say thanks to everyone who contributes to this site, im already 1000 bucks ahead cause of you guys

i just have a question about how to play top pair and aces in general against pretty bad players - the kind who wont give you credit, tend to play any two cards, and rarely bluff

you dont get a whole lot of respect for preflop raises, especially in late position, so i tend to limp with things like connectors, so quite often i might be in a hand with like 98s, and the flop comes 962 rainbow.

i bet pretty strongly at that, usually like around pot size, just aiming to take it down because i know there are probably a lot of overs in people's hands

if i get called, ill fire again on the turn, unless an ace or king comes out - any time i get raised on something like that, i tend to lay it down

the difference is what happens when im holding an ace?

say im holding like ATo and the flop comes A 6 2

i'd tend to bet that the same way, not wanting the guy who hit a 6 the chance to pair his other card and suck out. im wondering if thats the best long term play though, do you do better letting people hit a hand for value and occasionally wearing the beat, or is it best to just take down a smaller pot more reliably when you hit the ace?

my play style is fairly tight, i tend to not even call blinds with a lot of stuff people in my games raise with (mid-to-high paint, low-to-middle aces, etc) but i dont like being pushed out of pots where i think im ahead, and so i bet accordingly

would you play the hand any differently if you held AK?
even with the PFR, youre probably still against like 3-4 people who love to call stuff. thoughts?

[TLR]

Regarding your SC - when you limp SC you aim to hit the flush or the str8, hitting TP with no kicker is not good, especially in a multiway pot.
Assuming the pot is 4 handed or more I would check/fold TP if I had no other options (i.e. str8/flush draw)
against 1-2 opponents if checked to me in position I would try to take it down, but slow down if I dont take it down on the flop.

Regarding your other question, about the A, there is not a clear cut answer, but with A you want a good kicker (j+) and you want to raise it preflop.
In low limits if I have AK/AQ and I flop Top pair I assume I have the best hand if I raised preflop and got called, with AJ it is not always true, and I would not bother to play anytyhing lower unless I am in position and aim at stealing the blinds

[uscheese]

ultra low stakes (.5/1)

Do you mean .05/.10 as in 5 cents 10 cents? Or 50 cents and a dollar?

[Chopper]

if you are playing at 100 NL, and think that is ULTRA LOW stakes (low-mid maybe), and are up 1000 "already," and this is your 2nd post here, GET READY FOR THE VARIANCE.

maybe i should ask what your job is? or what you initially deposited into the site where you are playing your ultra-low games that dont respect raises pre-flop at 100 NL?

no offense, but i think you will find in about another 5k hands that people have now got "good reads" on you, and you will be put to the test w/ check-raises, 3bets, and scare-card-bluffs.

sounds more like a 10 NL game, to me, and some of them will still get wise to you...

i dont mean to sound like i am calling you a liar, but we do play poker, and pathalogicals run amuck in here like fleas on a dirty dog.

keep us posted, maybe we should all be learning something from you. good luck.

[icey35]

i actually have a full time job as a telecomms engineer, this poker thing is more an experiment i decided to start after wandering through my local casino on a friday earlier in the year and being dumbfounded by the abundance of bad play i saw - i played a lot of play money games online, watched a lot of WPT/WSOP, and read a lot of strat stuff, and was convinced i could make money off of these people, so i said ok, ill play, and if i lose 1000, ill quit, and if i dont double my money in three months, ill quit also. i just doubled my money last weekend, six weeks in, now my next goal is 5000, enough to bankroll me for the 100NL 1/2 game.

yeah i guess the difference here is that i play bricks-and-mortar, and 50c/$1 is the lowest game they have, so all the people who really arent that good are forced to play at that level

id guess that at least 50% of the people who play there wouldnt even break even at 5c/10c online, or whatever the bottom-level game is - but then when you consider that upstairs those same people would be playing blackjack for $25 a hand, its no surprise that they'll drop 50 bucks for a half hour's entertainment

i dont know how many melbournites frequent this forum, but i think anyone who has been to crown has probably borne witness to the lack of skills on offer there on the weekends

id probably get destroyed if i tried to play 50c/$1 online, but i seem to be doing ok playing in the flesh, and i think a lot of it has to do with this site - i discovered it about a year ago, and have probably read all the strategy articles like 2-3 times, with varying degrees of absorption

but sometimes its hard to take those lessons and apply them to really bad players of the ilk that i play against, hence me asking advice

i had a virtual bankroll of 1000 when i started - 20 buyins at $50, even though i didnt actually have a pile of cash sitting anywhere. ive got 1000 bucks sitting on my desk now, so in addition to the imaginary bankroll (more like a stop-loss i was prepared to play with) im at a 2k roll.

ive had some bad nights, but in accordance with the gospel of 'rilla, i walk away if i lose 10% of my roll - its happened 3 times out of 15 visits (told you i was new!) that ive lost $100, and i just go home, usually with full knowledge of what i did wrong, or what i did right, and how it was just a suckout or an unlucky race that i lost

so yeah, im not full of shit, but im not that great either. i have no real pretensions about becoming a great player, just a profitable one who can make money playing a game that i really like

i do find that there are regular players who like to play back at me, and can probably read me pretty well, but fortunately theres a good churn of gamblers and weekenders out for a good time to keep me paid. a lot of the better players tend to play stuff like 1/2 and 2/4, and leave us newbies alone

i guess maybe theres a lesson in that for all you internet grinders, you might actually be able to make money much more easily at a real casino, milking the drunks and the gamblers?

im sure you all have the skills - or maybe melbourne players are just particularly bad, im not sure

thanks for the feedback

[Knytestorme]

Hmm, Crown goes down to 1/2 does it...may have to start taking some weekend trips down to work on my live game.

[taipan168]

G'day mate and welcome to FTR, it's good to have you here.

I agree with what you say about the games at Crown being super soft. I read somewhere that the standard of play at live games is roughly the same as the online games at 10% of the stakes - so 100NL ($0.50/$1.00) live is like 10NL ($0.05/$0.10) online. I haven't played any live games at Crown but the couple of times I've played their $55 SNGs there the standard of play was worse than a Stars $3.40.

[Chopper]

the fact that you play B&M's says a lot about your previous statements of "ultra low." i dont know of a .5/1 game in the US, although i am sure they exist.

and, from what i hear, the people playing the lowest "live" limits are like playing 10 NL or 25 NL online. so, i can see how you are easily handling these games.

like you, i am continually surprised by what these guys call down with. it can be frustrating when the suckouts hit against you like crazy. but, when TPTK holds up, there's no better way in the world to make money, imo. it's like they line up to put it directly in your pocket.

and in Vegas, i am sure you can find someone to do that for you, too.