'Spenda's Limit Adventure

[bigspenda73]

Alright everyone, I have thought long and hard over the last week in determining whether I should make the switch to NL or stick with 6max Limit Hold'em. I have decided to stay with Limit for a number of reasons:

1. Bankroll Security
2. +Rakeback
3. Easier to multitable
4. I will only play Limit at B&M Casino

I feel the best way for me to improve my play and stay interested in every decision I make is to start up a blog here and chart my progress. I will hopefully be posting some interesting hand histories (at least as interesting as LHE can be) as well as BR updates, BB/100s, benchmarks, and goals.

My first big decision is where to start this adventure. Due to a recent cashout and lack thereof of cash in general I will be starting with a bankroll of $300. This means my first victims of choice will be the .25/.50 6max games. This brings me to my question for all of you former BR babies: Where in the heck do I start?

My idea is this:

1. Bodog Poker
--I can use the 10% instant bonus and start with 60BBs extra ($30) right off the bat. They only have 3-4 .25/.50 6max tables and you can only 3table at a time; however, my winrate suffered in the past with more than 3 tables therefore I like the fact that I can only run 3 here. I plan on turning my roll into $650 before I am done. I have rakeback (27%) with Bodog and they do not carry .5/1 6max tables, therefore I will be done after only 3 weeks at Bodog. Running at 5BB/100 and 200 h/hr I should be able to make 640BBs in approx 60 hrs or 3 weeks at 3hr/day

2. FT/UB
--Not sure which one to pick but I will be bonus whoring and taking advantage of the 100% bonus. I feel I will be good enough to 4-5 table these games and blow through the bonus and the .50/1 level rather quickly. Whoring both of these sites will allow me to make a much faster run to 1/2 and 2/4 6max. I will be applying for rakeback at both sites which I believe is in the neighborhood of 30% which really helps with 6max.

3. ???
--I will have little idea where to go after this, if the influx of Americans leaves FullTilt fishy I will probably just play on the site with rakeback at the 2/4 and 3/6 levels. I find it hard to see myself playing much higher stakes right now as I have never even been rolled for 2/4 before.

I hope that everyone playing Limit will get something out of this, and please do not hesitate to post in this thread. I will hopefully have an update by next Monday (11/27) as I will be traveling for the holidays and may not get to play in the near future.

Current Bankroll: $330
Location: Bodog .25/.50 6max/FR tables
Current Goal: Play 20hr/wk

[spoonitnow]

Good luck!

[bigspenda73]

Well, yea, since I started my "adventure" I have played ZERO hands. Mainly b/c I had to work a few days and I have been traveling for the other ones. I've had a lot of down time which has allowed me to read some poker material I brought with me. Not that it pertains to my experiment here but I have reread SSHE by Skalanksy because I still like to play the 2/4 or 4/8 game at my local casino at least once a week. I feel the game should be much more profitable for me than it has been in the past. Im typically about a 4-5BB/100 winner at the 2/4 game and slightly better at 4/8 just because of the rake %. Anyways, I feel that these games should be beatable for up to 10-15BB/100 which would work out to be about 3-5BB/hr. Playing the 4/8 game thats not too bad of an hourly pay

Anyways, back to the material. I have been reading a collection of shorthanded LHE material that I have collected in the past as well as reviewing some PF charts. The more I read the better I understand the mathematical aspects of the game. Not just pot odds, implied odds, etc... but the actual process in formulating these mathematical equations and applying them to poker theory. I've identified two leaks in my game by doing so:

1. I was not 3betting flops enough.
--I typically always donk a large flopped hand (trips, sets, straights) and when I am raised I seem to smooth call and donk the turn. From looking at past HH and past hands I've posted I've realized I've lost a lot of bets by not 3betting these flops. That's leak #1 and it has a pretty simple and obvious fix.

2. I am not folding the turn to raises and/or check-raises
--I think the turn raise/check-raise is the strongest play in LHE and I typically have trouble folding to it. From now on if I am raised on the turn and/or river I will make sure I analyze the board, the play made, and the player and will have more of an affinity to lay a hand down. I know I take too many hands to showdown and I think this is why.

OH YEA....one question for you limit players out there. Anyone play on Doyle's Room? Just wondering what they offer in terms of 6max games and how the fishies are. I read the reviews on this site and the bonus seems sound as well as the site seems full of fish. I'm just wondering if there is a big enough player base at .25/.50-1/2 6max to start a bankroll there after my Bodog experience.

Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone

[spoonitnow]

Check bonuswhores for an approx hourly rate, I think their bonus is pretty good but I'm not sure.

[Pok 7's]

How is the table selection at BoDog for 6 max tables? Mostly concerned with the .5/1-2/4 levels.

That's the one site I still haven't played on, but I am planning on playing there in the near future, Just not sure if there's much in terms of Limit games there.

[spoonitnow]

It's about 1:15 AM EST right now.

There are no .5/1 6-max tables, four 1/2 6-max tables with average pot sizes 11, 11, 10, 8, and no 6-max 2/4 tables. For .5/1 and 2/4, I don't even see any 6-max tables offered at all.

Depending on your specific situation, you might want to do it for the bonus. Granted it's only 10%, bonuswhores lists it as $6.30/hr per table at $1/2 shorthanded.

[bigspenda73]

There are never .5/1 6max tables at Bodog and the 1/2 tables aren't extremely juicy. The bonus is easily attainable but is not that much. Methinks it could be tough to grind the bankroll up here but it will certainly improve my play. I hope that translates to greater success at FT, Abs, UB, and Doyles while clearing larger bonuses.

[Pok 7's]

I was considering using it as a site to hit for bonuses, since I'm in the US and the bonus trail has basically dried up.

But if the game selection is lame, I'm not sure if it's worth grinding there.

[bigspenda73]

FT/UB/Absolute still have huge bonuses for the lower limit grinder if you can multitable like a son of a gun and play a bunch of hands. I think limit is still very beatable, however, I think bonuses are going to be a big part in being limit now. That plus rakeback will be essential is building a BR until you get to a level with less bite from the rake and where making 2BB/100 is some real scratch.

[bigspenda73]

Was rereading old posts and I came across this....

You keep pushing marginal edges with marginal hands in these games, but the house takes way too big of a cut

Not really going to elaborate on this now, just thought I'd leave it out here if anyone else wants to discuss it.

Im pretty beat, been at the bar all weekend long b/c I told myself I won't be drinking for a week. Good thing about that is I will now be able to replace drinking with poker. I should play my first session of the experiment either Mon or Tues. It will be on Bodog and it will most likely be a mix of .25/.50 6max and .5/1 FR. I keep talking about poker yet I am not playing any, so my goal for this week is to get in 5K hands by Sunday.

[Pok 7's]

^^

Honestly I thought Party's rake was horrible for Low limit HE, most of the other sites seem pretty standard. Along the lines of .25 for every $5, which I don't see as being a monster cut IMO.

Party's was double what basically every other site was. I rarely played at Party other than when I had a bonus working, granted the games may have been good. However I just hated the idea of paying double the rake knowing I can go to any other site and pay half.

Also there's always the WPX if you want to play rake free.

[euphoricism]

I would vote that UB's bonus + rakeback could easily be your mealticket, spenda.

Partys rake was horrible. I wasnt aware it was "double what every other site" was, though. Maybe. I never played anywhere else enough for it to matter.

WPX is available, but i havent checked it out in quite a while. From what I hear, its rocky.

[Pok 7's]

Yeah I haven't played at the WPX yet...From what I've heard it's not horrible but seems like it's loaded with a bunch of 2+2'ers

[bigspenda73]

Wooohoooo

I finally played some poker....well, at least a little bit.

Played approx 200 hand in about 90 minutes. Results do not matter so much as I think I lost about 8BBs. I played just horribly though. The one thing I did not do however was pay off any turn or river bets. That was my main goal. I only 2 tabled to get the feel of the Bodog interface which I am not too fond of to tell you the truth. Also, the players weren't as horrible as I was hoping.

I just wanted to play some cards and I did. I need to revisit some PF charts to tighten up my play. Cannot pull stats off of Bodog but I believe I saw 40% of flops (blinds included) which is way too much considering the types of hands I was being dealt. My W%SD was 57%. I have some other things to do but hopefully I will pull a full 2 hr 3tabling session later tonight for a full 500 hand session. Hopefully we'll get it back in the black.

Oh yea, I ended up depositing $500 and got a $50 bonus of which I cleared 43$ worth in only 200 hands at .25/.50 6max. With the bonus in my account, the loss of 8BBs, my current BR is:
$539

I'll update later after I play some more hands.

[bigspenda73]

Edit: I don't want to turn this into a bad beat thread.

[bigspenda73]

Edit: See above

Im on a 90BB downswing. Just for fun Ill show you the 2 worst hands of the night.

Dealt QQ UTG raise, 3 callers

Flop Q62r
Hero bet, CO calls, 2 folds

Turn A
Hero bets, CO calls

River 10
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3bets, CO Caps, Hero calls
CO has KJ

Second hand
Hero is BN with AA
2 limps, Hero raises, 2 calls
Flop: K94r
2 checks, Hero bets, 1 call
Turn: 5
CO checks, Hero bets, CO calls
River: 6
CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3bets, Hero calls
CO shows 78

Man those stung. Couple those with getting dealt KK two straight hands and losing to J hi boards and you have me near ultracollosalmegaTilt. Im taking a breather and hitting it back up again. I need to know if it's me or variance, I think its 70%variance 30%me.

[euphoricism]

I think I could do without raising that river.

$500 and got a $50 Bonus of which I cleared 43$ worth in only 200 hands

woa, really that quick?

[bigspenda73]

Yea, it was released into my acct that quickly, playing .25/.5 6max. Kind of makes me wish I had deposited 5K and got my entire starting br for this project out of the bonus. Guess I still could as every deposit gets this bonus.

[euphoricism]

... dayam. See ya at the tables!

[bigspenda73]

Well I got in 550 hands today....

of absolutely break even poker. Actually I won .25BB at .25/.50 6max for a nice profit of 12 cents. Hah, I just suck. I am tiliting so easily and it is showing. My PF decision making is so poor when I am tiliting.

I am seriously starting to debate the profitability of .25/.50 6max LHE. The games at Bodog are just so much different than what I played at Titan (I was a 6BB/100 winner there over 10K hands). The game is much more Loose Aggressive than I was hoping. I am used to a passive type game and I think it shows in my PF decision making. I have now logged about 1200 hands over the past two days and I have yet to make an adjustment. To me that proves that I am just not as good as I think I am. Im down 60BB in that time frame for a -5BB/100 winrate. I honestly believe I could be more profitable at .5/1 FR than the 6max games on a BB/100 level. I think Im going to look into these games over the next few days and see if they are exploitable. I am fully br'd to play the .5/1 FR games and if they are anything like the B&M 4/8 Limit game I play then I should be able to beat it at a nice clip.

Now I know I will need to get to 6max but Bodog does not offer it at the .5/1 level. The .25/.50 level is just ridiculous. Every concept of limit is lost on every player and it affects the hands in general. A raise from UTG gets little respect, players cannot recognize iso raises, I am getting 3bet so light on the turn, and I am seeing so many hands fold on the river when Im ahead. Seriously, you're supposed to pay off in limit damnit!!

Wow, long ramble but I guess Im still winding down from a 2.5hr session.

Goal for the rest of the week: STOP SUCKING

Oh yea, forgot. Today I sat to the left of this Fu$(ing maniac on two tables. He was horrible, raising about 2/3 pots and always following through on every street. Against me he picked up Aces, made quads with J7, and basically owned my ass the whole time OOP on me. Absolutely ridiculous, I was in a spot any player would love to be in and I was just handcuffed by the cards. It just sucks knowing all of that possible value was lost and I'll probably never see him again cuz he'll go busto by the end of the night.

[bigspenda73]

I have a confession...I played some 10NL today





























...and I liked it

[bigspenda73]

After my little NL adventure where I dropped 2 buyins but had a lot of fun and actually got my heart racing a few times I decided to 2 table .25/.5 6max to see if I could break the variance streak.

BOY DID I EVER
1 hr session
150 hands
+46BB
over 30BB/100

YUM YUM

wish I could play longer but I have been putting off some schoolwork for way way way too long. I have so much hw to do I think I might just take off a week from poker and get it done. It sucks but it's kinda my life.

[bigspenda73]

Where's Johnny Fish ship it button when ya need it

Hero is CO
Dealt to Hero Kd9d

2 calls, Hero calls, Button raises, SB folds, BB calls, 2 calls, Hero calls

Flop (10SBs) : 6d7d9c
3 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, 3 calls, Hero raises, 4 calls

Turn (10BBs): 7s
3 checks, Hero bets, 4 calls

River (15BBs): Ad
SB checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero raises, Button calls, UTG raises, MP folds, Hero calls, Button calls

Final Pot (25BBs)
Hero wins 12.50


Next hand
Hero is MP
Deal to Hero KsQd

UTG calls, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop (8.5SBs): JcTs4h
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls

Turn (6.25BBs): 9c
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls

River (10.25BBs): 3c
UTG bets, Hero calls, Button raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls

Final Pot (18.2BBs)
Hero wins 9.10



Well looks like my variance is getting over. Im back in the black now. I have played 1500 hands at .25/.50 and I am up a HUGE 14bbs. Thats almost 1bb/100. However, over the last 300 hands I am up 75BBs which is nice. My BR is still a little down as I took a shot at the 1/2 6max game and dropped some buyins donking it up at the 10NL tables.

Most fun I had today was two fish came and sat down to play heads up with me with $5 infront of them. I pwned the first one in about 10 hands, he got up, then another came, lost his $5 to me. He then put a real stack on the table and played me about even because I was so card dead and he couldn't fold Q high to my 3 barrels.

All in all a good day of poker.

[bigspenda73]

Alright some hand histories from today. Only could play a short 200 hand 1 hr 2table session. Ended up +24BBs but don't let it fool ya, should have been 40-50. Last hand of the night my turned nut flushed gets boated by a guy holding 10 6 who capped the turn with me.

Anyways, 2 interesting hands which happened within 60 sec of each other on two seperate tables. They basically involve preflop decisions with TT and one hand reading decision.

First hand:

5 handed
Hero is SB
Villain is UTG-Taggish (but at this level how good can they really be?)
Dealt to Hero ThTs

UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero Calls (?), BB calls

Flop (6SBs): Kh4h4d
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, BB folds

Turn (4BBs): Js
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises (?), UTG calls

now the river is not too important so I'll put it in white, I fully intend to bet any river card except an ace/heart

River (8BBs): 10c
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3bets, UTG calls

Final Pot (14BBs)
Hero wins $7.00

Alright, my reasoning is this. There are a few hands UTG could be raising here PF. UTG pauses for a second before betting the turn, that makes me think he has AQ/AJ/QQ/99 and I can move him off of it.

Hand 2:

6 handed
Hero is MP
Dealt to Hero TcTs
UTG posts BB
CO posts BB

UTG checks, Hero calls (?), CO checks, Button calls, SB calls, BB checks

Im stopping the HH right here b/c flop is irrelevant. I almost used up my time bank thinking about this. Not sure the exact numbers but I believe TT sees at least 1 overcard on half of flops. If I raise here I will have at least 3 callers. At this level the two players who posted and the BB are just not going to fold. If an overcard comes on the flop I can cbet but it is likely 1 of these players will just call me down.

The argument for raising is this. There's so much dead money in the pot if I can pick it up with a raise then it is hugely +EV. The biggest concern is getting the CO who posted to fold his posted blind. Im not too worried about button cold calling 2 bets here. If I raise and can knock out CO and button then I can probably play a 3way pot in position against two players who I already have a huge postflop edge over.

So what does everyone think? This hand seems too strong to go set camping with. I know it will win this pot more than 16% of the time UI however I think I lose more when I lose than I win when I win unimproved. Sure, if I hit a set I've made a huge hand, however, I just don't feel this is a value raise PF.

Please feel free to criticize this. Maybe I am just being nitty but I don't want to raise here PF and play a community pot, which is most likely what will happen.

OH yea, Im nearly back into the black overall

BR: 547.21
.25/.50 winnings: +38BBs/1500 hands or roughly 2.5BB/100
10NL winning: -$16

Edit: updated BR, forgot I played some 1/3stack 10NL for fun, moved in with KK and got called by j9s and ajs....ship it.

[bigspenda73]

Another day, another dollar....well, more like 7 dollars.

Found a great seat next to this maniac today.

My exact notes:
"Maniac, horrible postflop player, 3bet very light, will give up on pots even with A hi"

This leads me to my one HH for the day:
This involves me and the aformentioned villain (maniac)

.25/.50 6max
5 handed
Hero is Button
Dealt to Hero: KsKc

1 fold, CO raises, Hero 3bets, SB folds, BB folds, CO caps, Hero calls

Flop: Kh3d4s
CO checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3bets, CO calls

Turn: Qh
CO checks, Hero bets, CO folds

Final Pot: 7.75BB returned to Hero

I think I got caught up in the moment and thought "oh oh oh maniac and I floppped a monster, cap every street twice!!!" Well, I forgot this player could actually fold a hand post flop, he probably held something like 89s. He was 3betting and capping PF with this kinda crap all night. I wonder if I should just smooth call the flop c/r, then raise a turn donk. However, if he has air I think he will peel a turn card.

Lets look at it this way
If I 3bet the flop and donk the turn and he folds I win just 1 more SB
If I smooth call the flop c/r and then raise a turn donk I win at the least 1 more BB.

Looks like it was +EV to smooth call on the flop if villian has air and it is -EV to 3bet/donk turn.

However, if villian has a hand like AQ, KQ, JJ, or even AA then I think the 3bet is the right move. Generally when you get capped after 3betting PF it is one of those hands. Either way it came down to reads and I thought I could get into a raising was with him, oh well.

Current BR: $554.74
.25/.50 winnings: +53BBs/1600= 3.3BBs/100
10NL winnings: -$16

Finally back in the black overall WooooHoooo. Next up, Im cashing out of Bodog b/c I just dont like the interface, I think I'm going to deposit into Doyle's Room, take advantage of the 110% signup and start playing .5/1 6max and some shots at 1/2. On top of this, I have began casino whoring with a start at VegasCasinoOnline.com. I deposit 100 get 225 total and hopefully stay over the $100 mark. If I can just play at the house advantage I should be able to profit~$100 which is 100BBs at .5/1 I don't have to earn.

[bigspenda73]

Going to keep updating even if I think no one is viewing. I think one day this might show some low limit up and comers that it is possible.

Played a 2 hr 401 hand session today. Really funny, I was up big on 2 tables and down 16bbs on the other. All in all a really good session

+$31 in 401 hands
+62BB/401 hands=15.5BB/100

Nice little rush, hard to believe I was down 18BBs on one of the tables. That means I was 40 bucks up on the other two tables in about 270 hands. That works out to nearly 30bb/100....WHAT A RUSH.

Current BR: $582.78
.25/.50 winnings=+117BBs/2000 hands= 5.85BB/100
10NL winnings: -$26

I want to post some HH's but they won't get any views in this thread so Im gonna start a new thread in SSSLHE forum, GO CHECK EM OUT!

[bigspenda73]

Nothing special today except I withdrew my BR from Bodog and plan on depositing it on Doyles as soon as it clears. I hope there is some traffic on that site. Looks like I'll be trying to get rb and the 110% bonus. Ill be deposting 500 so my starting roll including projected bonus will be 1050 meaning Id be rolled for 1/2 6max. However, i think I'll probably play 2 tables of .5/1 6max and maybe 1 table of 1/2 working my way to 4 tabling with 2 of each level. That would basically mean my bb would be 1.5 meaning Id have 700bbs which is nicely overrolled.

Also, i am waiting on a Neteller deposit to clear in order to casino whore it up. VegasCasinoOnline was nice enough to credit my account with 20 bucks for fun, I busted that in like 2 minutes playing $5 BJ, I figured go big or go home...I went home in 6 hands. BTW, the BR I make from casino whoring (hopefully about 300 in profit) I think I will put toward a little fun 10NL account on some site. This will be primarily for when I need a break from the grind of LHE. Don't worry tho, limit will stay my game for a while, I think the middle levels of limit can be very profitable. I've been watching the 2/4 3/6 5/10 games on FT and they seem exploitable and still full of fish :P

I am not going to post here for a while cuz I have a ton of stufff to do for my career and its' due in like a week.

[bigspenda73]

Well I'm bored and currently have no money on a poker site. For some reason my cashout from Bodog is taking longer than expected. It might be for the best as I have so much shit to do over the next 5 days that 3 hrs of poker a day would just kill it.

On another note, I've been reading a lot of stuff on limit and I have come to the conclusion that I just do not know that much about the game. I find myself really freewheeling it when Im playing and while I might be making a nice profit, I'd really like to start having reasoning behind all of my actions instead of: "I think I have the best hand, so I'll bet." or "I think he has me beat, fold." Basically my play has become way too straightforward and I think once I get up to 2/4 that it will be exploitable unless I change it.

Two things I want to do differently the next time I play:
1. C/r more flops
2. Take my free cards once I raise for them

Number 2 is certainly going to be harder than 1.

My theory on taking free cards is quite winded but it goes like this. I will only take a free card when I feel I cannot get my opponent to fold the turn. If I have a call-down type opponent I will take the free card and see a cheap river. If my hand is strong enough already to win a showdown I will not take a free turn card, however, I will take a free showdown by betting the turn and checking behind on the river. If my hand connects of course I keep betting.
The biggest problem with not taking a free card is that it is hugely spewy. You are in a sense wasting a SB everytime you do this. I estimate this situation generally comes up quite often, maybe 2-3Xs/100 hands. A 1bb/100 spew over a month at 75K hands at 1/2LHE means a unecessary spew of $1500. This shit adds up in limit.

On top of not being able to play poker Neteller is dicking around with my acct leaving me unable to deposit and casino whore. Im going to try to get it fixed by tonight so I can chill, watch some bball and hopefully profit about $100.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND EVERYONE

[bigspenda73]

Wow, casino whore VegasCasinoOnline and ended up breakeven. Yep, lost $125 in about 2 hrs playing $2 hands...gg life.

Anyways, I was up 15 bucks and I put it all on one last hand.
Dealt hard 17, dealer up card 5 undercard queen, hits a 3.

Such a huge fucking waste of time. I realized how dumb this shit it but it SHOULD be profitable so I'll probably hit up the casinos Eupho suggested in his thread.

[bigspenda73]

Well.....Damn

Had some issues with VegasCasinoOnline pertaining to my withdrawl. Long story short if you casinowhore here and the box that says withdrawable has money in it, check with support first to make sure it's cleared. Mine wasn't. I had to play abou 700 more hands so I decided to use in the Martingale method (double ur bet each time you lose). Anyways, I ran hot to start but eventually the dealer hitting 16 to 21 on my last two hands busted me, yea gg life. Anyways, that brings my casino roll down to: -$100. It sucks b/c now Im playing catchup with a limited number of casinos to whore. Not to be a martyr but that's how I feel life treats me sometime. I finally find a huge edge and I still get 1 outered.

Onto poker, well nothing has happened, I'll probably be waiting 2 more days for a neteller deposit to clear so I can deposit at Doyle's Room. I learned some good things in the FTR chat room and I would employ all of you limit youngstas to take advantage of it whenever the guys are in there. I railed Eupho for about 200 hands and I feel I learned a lot about postflop play.

Have a good one everyone.

[Harry]

Don't feel bad... I busted the first time I tried casino whoring... havn't tried again since =P

[bigspenda73]

Well, I am currently at work waiting for the day to end, I don't have my Neteller acct info but I am hoping once I get home that my deposit will have cleared. I have some things to take care of over the next 2-3 days so poker will be scarce. I would like to play b/c it's the weekend and that's where I'd like to make some monies. Im not really sure what I am going to do at Doyle's Room but my plan goes like this:

2tbl .5/1 LHE 6MAX
2tbl 1/2 LHE 6MAX

I will be depositing $500 and receiving a $550 bonus in a LUMP SUM upon completion of the requirements. I did not realize this. Looking at bonuswhores.com it looks like by 4tabling these 2 limits I will be clearing the bonus at approx $13/hr. This means I will be playing 42 hours worth of poker at Doyle's Room. If I can get 3 hours in a day on regular days and 5-6 on my day's off then it works out to about 12-13 days to clear this bonus. I am a little worried that there will not be enough poker available at Doyle's, so here's hoping. I am also getting rakeback which I believe will work out to about $12/day playing for 3hrs 4tabling. Not much really b/c there isn't much of a rake at these levels. Once I get up to 2/4 and 3/6 this will dramatically increase. I have been number crunching lately and I have figured this out.

I will be playing approx 17K hands at Doyles Room
I hope to run 2.5BB/100 at these softer levels on a so-called "fish-full" site
Assuming a BB of 1.5 I will make about $635 from playing poker, plus $150 or so more from rakeback. This plus the bonus=$1335 in profit from Doyle's. My roll for my next site will not need to exceed $1000 and my roll will be $1965. Exluding my original deposit i will have $465 or so to spend on something which I hope will be a new monitor to help me eventually 6tbl 1/2 and 2/4 6max at Full Tilt.

Hah, just another longwinded update with no poker in it. I promise the next time I update will be AFTER I play some hands.

[ville18]

lol limidonks.

[bigspenda73]

What have I been thinkin? Eh...obviously not much. Im scrappin the Doyle's room idea b/c the bonus is only given in lump sums meaning it might take a month for me to see it

Anyways, here is the new play. Deposit my 580 back onto Bodog, get $58 in bonus, clear it in about 1k hands at .5/1. Hopefully I'll end up leaving there with around $650 in my roll and I will be depositng that at FullTilt for their 100% up to $600 bonus. It releases in incremements of $20 which will be about every 3 hours 4 tabling.

[Xanadu]

Never open limp from the CO. If you are going to play, raise. The only time to open-limp in 6-max is a small pp from EP on a very loose very passive table.

TT is a 3-betting hand unless raiser is a known nit. People cold-calling raises with junk is just more reason to raise it. It's the 5th best frickin hand! Only about 9% of the time will someone have a better hand at a 6-max table.

[StageWhisper]

I just wanted to say that I am enjoying reading this and check up on how you're doing every couple of days. It's nice to see someone still supporting limit, and when I'm ready to get back to it I'll probably follow your bonus trail. Keep up the good work, I'm sure there are a lot of people interested even if you only are getting limited responses. gg

[bigspenda73]

Thanks for the posts in the thread!

@Xan, at first I thought you had lost your mind, I had no idea what you were referencing, I had to reread my own thread. Hah. My comments are this: I wasn't openlimping in the CO because the action had already been opened w/ an extra posted BB. I couldn't make anyone coldcall 2 bets as 3 players had a bb posted (including the actual bb). I just didn't feel like building a large pot with what is a speculative hand 4-5 handed.

@Stage- thanks for the encouragement bud, Im thinkin about either depositing at Stars or Bodog for just one night and killin a bonus so that I can put the full $600 on FullTilt. I am going to be playing a ton of hands over the next month/s so stay tuned.

[Xanadu]

Apparently I did lose my mind cause I didn't notice the 2 calls. If your hand was just a little better (say KTs or KJo), I like a raise here with one of the limpers being a poster. If they had both posted, definitely raise it up with K9s. That's very good against 2 random hands. Or, alternatively, if the true limper is a loose aggressive player preflop (40+/15+), I like a raise as well, as K9s should be well ahead of his range.

K9s is about 58% against a 40/15's limping range.

[bigspenda73]

Played 1600 hands today, by far and away the most I've ever played in a session. However, I ran at -4BB/100 but I did clear 25BBs in bonus and at one pt I was down over 110BBs.

Here are some hands from the session

Who raises this river donk?

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, 6.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6, 8, 7 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) Q (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 9 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB


Anyone here think Im up against another set. Is this pretty bad PF?

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 3.
3 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8, 2, 3 (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) T (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls $0.20 (All-In).

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

[euphoricism]

Both are perfectly fine. I -might- consider slowing down on hand 2, but with him being so short he could easily just be trying to get it all in.

[bigspenda73]

Played a really short session tonight, 200 hands +21bbs. I found myself not wanting to play at all for some reason. Well, here are 2 interesting hands. I feel like I missed a turn bet on each, the first hand particularly.

Hand 1. Put this guy on hearts...still don't think there is a reson to raise this river bet. PF is interesting, the button was very nitty but the blinds were loose, therefore I decided against raising the QJo b/c I didn't feel as if I needed to "buy" the button.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, J.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K, 7, J (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (4 BB) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6 BB

Hand 2: Major background on this one. I had been raising villians button and BB every orbit w/ anything decent and he had been coldcalling out of the BB and folding to every cbet. I figured he finally wanted to fight back...

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, T.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 6, 2, T (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.50 BB) 9 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[bigspenda73]

Alright, here's the deal. I am having a bit of a time cbetting flops, picking times to steal pots, and so forth. Here are some examples. My main concern are these turn bluffs after limped pots where I am betting $1 to win only $1. That just doesn't seem profitable in the long run.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, A.
3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 5, Q, J (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (2 BB) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (4 BB) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4 BB


Hand 2:
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, A.
Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J, Q, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 3.25 BB

Hand 3:
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, Q.
2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 4, T, 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Turn: (1 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: (1 BB) T (2 players)
Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 2 BB

Hand 4: Here's a hand i don't follow through on due to board texture. PF is iffy I know

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, 4.
Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) T, J, K (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3 BB) T (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3 BB) 7 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 3 BB

Hand 5: Floating these cbets w/ a c/r can be fun, but is it even worth it? Should I just be giving up most of the time. If called here I have to donk the turn...

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, Q.
1 fold, MP raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J, 5, 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero raises, MP folds.

Final Pot: 3.75 BB

Realized I haven't had a running BR total. Im going to do it for each site
Starting BR: $500
Bodog.com earnings: $80 (including $50 bonus)
Pokerstarts earnings: $10(including $50 bonus)
Current BR: $590 (w/ $50 pending in bonus)
Goal: $655 before going to Full Tilt ($55 for PT $600 for full bonus)

[Xanadu]

1,2,4 I play the same except for preflop on hand 4. A4s is a little worse than iffy from UTG. 3 and 5 are ok if you have a read that these plays might work against opponent. In general I really don't like the river bluff with Q-high. It really looks like a bluff, since you surely would have bet the turn with a T, and any K or A might call you. This is pretty much a pure bluff as no hands you beat call, so the big question is will he fold an A-high? If not this is spewy. Bluffs in these spots appear to work more often than they actually do because with Q-high here you are usually already ahead when opponent folds. I would prefer to make this play with a worse hand like 9-high because now a lot more hands that beat me fold. You are risking 1 bet to win 1 bet, so you really need to be behind and have the bluff work 1/2 the time to break even. It's just not reasonable to expect opponent to be ahead of you and fold half the time. The times you are already ahead and he folds don't count towards that 50% ... you would have won anyway. Your suspicion that this isn't worth it in this spot is correct. Take the same hand, put yourself on the Button with J9s, which you raise and SB folds and BB calls. You would of course bet the flop. Well now if the turn gets checked, and he checks to you on the river, there are 3BB in the pot, and you have a much better bluffing situation. You now need opponent to fold a better hand only 1/4 of the time, and any A,K, or Q may fold. I just ran through the numbers, and even this situation is probably just worth it. If we make some reasonable assumptions, such as BB is calling with 80% of hands preflop, and would have bet any T or 8 by now, and half the time would have bet a 4, will fold any unpaired K or Q, and half the time fold A-high, now about 1/3 of the time our opponent has a better hand and will fold. Definitely worth a bluff.

Xanadu's first rule for bluffing (limit):

Bluff when your opponent has nothing, but his nothing is better than your nothing.

Keep this in mind before you hit that bet button. Look at the pot to see how often your opponent has to fold a better hand for your bluff to work. Then think about whether it is reasonable for your opponent to fold a better hand that often. A and K-high hands are generally very bad to bluff with. There just aren't many hands that both beat you and will fold. Most people will call HU with any pair and often with any A, so there just aren't enough hands that both beat you and will fold to make bluffing worth while. Q-high hands can occassionally be worth a bluff if your kicker is weak, but it is with the J-high and lower hands that you will make most of your bluffing money. Always remember that the times you are already ahead you gain no value by bluffing.

[bigspenda73]

Thank you Xan, good explanations...

[bigspenda73]

Played 450 hands tonight, won 13BBs. Was up and down. Basically doubled my stack on 1 table and was a small loser on 2 others and break even on another. Here are a few interesting hands

Hand 1: Fire@turn and/or river?

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, J.
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 8, 8, 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (5 BB) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Hand 2: More AJ, more 8s
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, A.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8, J, 4 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (7 BB) 8 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (7 BB) 7 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Hand 3: Another shitty bluff for no damn reason. I cannot take my hand of the bet button

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, 6.
UTG calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9, 3, 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) 9 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 2.50 BB

Hand 4: Call down of the night, he's the last to act which widens his range hugely. By the turn I think I am ahead, however, i still fail to bet turn. It wasn't a wa/wb situation, more of a ba/wb.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, 7. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A, J, Q (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

River: (5.50 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Hand 5: PF, new concept Im working on. It involves an open limper and hero in the CO against a loose button. Unfortunately I failed to notice the button didn't even have a BB left. Well just assume I don't suck PF and analyze from there.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, 9.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.20 SB) J, 3, Q (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.10 BB) 7 (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.10 BB) 4 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 9.10 BB

Starting BR: $500
Bodog.com earnings: $80 (including $50 Bonus)
Pokerstarts earnings: $23(including $50 Bonus)
Current BR: $603 (w/ $50 pending in Bonus)
Goal: $655 before going to Full Tilt ($55 for PT $600 for full Bonus)

[Xanadu]

Hands 1 and 2, bet, bet, bet. Short handed limit you are always betting TPTK on an uncoordinated board. Surely you aren't afraid just because the board is paired?

Hand 3, yup, horrible bluff (reread my last post, I guess)

Hand 4, just fine.

Hand 5, raise the turn. If he folds, you wouldn't have gotten a river bet anyway.

[bigspenda73]

So Xan, 4 handed on a flop and the middle card pairs on the board and you don't feel you're going to get c/r'ed here. This is the situation in hand 2. Seems like these players love to pull out the old fancy play there. I just tend to shut down a bit when the middle card pairs and I am not holding it.

Hand 3: yep, reread it, it makes sense, I just get to aggressive in trying to take down pots. I think it's good Im not too results oriented or I would never learn.

Hand 5: Im hoping to raise any non club river, however he checks. I think this is where I am losing a lot of value on the turn by not raising. Why not raise when I ahead, I do not know. Sometimes my thinking is so counterproductive to making monies.


Played 500 hands tonight. Im about 1500 hands from clearing the Pokerstars bonus and then I will see if I am up to $655 I need for FT+PT. I have 80 of my BR in my bank acct and not in Neteller, was hoping to not have to go through depositing into Neteller again. I might have to go to Bodog to clear their ridiculously quick 10% bonus.

Starting BR: $500
Bodog.com earnings: $80 (including $50 Bonus)
Pokerstarts earnings: $41(including $50 Bonus)
Current BR: $621 (w/ $50 pending in Bonus)
Goal: $655 before going to Full Tilt ($55 for PT $600 for full Bonus)

[Xanadu]

Sure, you might get check raised. It happens. But a check means weakness more often than it means strength. There are so many more hands you beat but can draw out on you than are beating you here. If you bet to protect your hand, you make money when they call, you make money when they fold. If you check, you can only lose money to these hands. Any K, Q, pp, gutshot, or 4 that folds increases your winning chances. And if they call that is ok too. There could be as many as 19 cards that can beat you on the river. Sometimes you get trapped and lose a bet. But if you check, sometimes you lose the whole pot by giving a free card when you have a good but vulnerable hand. I really think you are losing a lot of value here by not betting the turn.

[Xanadu]

Some time soon you may want to start a Limit adventure 2 thread with a link to this one. Getting pretty long.

[bigspenda73]

Sure, once I deposit onto Full Tilit I will do it.

Should I start the new one in Poker Etc. or keep it in here?

[chris1195]

Just in case you wondering i am watching the topic so dont stop posting. I am interested in 6 max limit and learning a few things from you.

[bigspenda73]

I am interested in 6 max limit and learning a few things from you

Learning from my mistakes I assume.

You know, I think I'll start posting hands I thought I played perfectly in order to see if the limit studs here think the same.

[bigspenda73]

WOOOOOOOT!!!!

Finished Stars with a mothafuckin bang ya'll.
500 hands/+68bbs and I finished my deposit requirement.
I'll post a few of the huge winners later. Lets just say I ran ungodly well, 2 outers were about a 2:1 favorite for me tonight

Starting BR: $500
Bodog.com earnings: $80 (including $50 Bonus)
Pokerstarts earnings: $107(including $50 Bonus)
Current BR: $687
Goal: $655 before going to Full Tilt ($55 for PT $600 for full Bonus)

Alright, I've hit my goal, except I forgot the $80 I won at Bodog is not in my fricking Neteller acct. Therefore....I will be depositing $600 at Bodog and once again taking full advantage of their 10% anytime bonus. Ill probably clear the bonus in less than 1k hands and then play another 1k just to look like I was not whoring. This means I will hopefully have even more than the $655 necessary for Full Tilt + PokerTracker. Riding high tonight boys...riding high....

Also, look out for my new thread in Poker etc...I'll leave this one here as a reference.

[bigspenda73]

Well since that $80 is not in my Neteller I am forced to go back to Bodog to whore it up...but wait!! The bonus is clearing very slowly. I do not get it, I've played 1K hands and Ive cleared nearly 40% of the requirements. Last time I played at Bodog I think I was in and out in less than 1K hands. Hmmm....something's different.

Anyways, had a great run today, played .25/.50 6max b/c they do not offer .5/1 and I played .5/1 FR which was fun. I made the stone cold nuts like 10 times in pots but only 2-3 became large (15bb+) pots. All in all I made $54 playing and they credited my account with $60 in bonus.

Starting BR: $500
Bodog.com earnings: $80 (including $50 Bonus)
Pokerstarts earnings: $107(including $50 Bonus)
2nd trip to Bodog: $114(including $60 Bonus)
Current BR: $801 (with pending $60 Bonus)
Goal: $655 before going to Full Tilt ($55 for PT $600 for full Bonus)

--yea, yea, I've hit my goal but I have to clear the requirements before cashing out. Probably another 1500 hands which will hopefully be by Wednesday.

Merry Christmas everyone

[bigspenda73]

Well, I finished at Bodog 2 nights ago and although I dropped $70 in a heads up match I cleared my wagering requirements and withdrew. I ended up profiting $101 at Bodog the second time around. I deposited $600 on Full Tilt and took the 100% sign up bonus plus another referral bonus. I plan on starting to play on Full Tilt in about 2-3 days as I really want to read the 3 poker books I got in (thanks to an Amazon Gift Certificate) before I start playing again.

This will be my last post in this thread in SSSLHE as I will be firing up a new thread in the Poker Etc. Forum. My adventure told me it was bored and wanted to hang with other 'adventures' and 'operations'.

Starting BR: $500
Bodog.com earnings: $80 (including $50 Bonus)
Pokerstarts earnings: $107(including $50 Bonus)
2nd trip to Bodog: $101(including $60 Bonus)
Current BR: $734 (-$55 for PokerTracker)

Here is my new thread in Poker Etc.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...tion-48701.htm