Nut Betting

[Memeon]

$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, November 10, 20:05:46 ET 2006

Hero (UTG+1): $213.65
Dealt to Hero: 2c-2d

SB Folds, Hero calls $2 and SB completes $1

Villain (BB): $200.00
Villain raises $8 and makes it $10 total

I have no information on the Villain; he has only been seated for several minutes.

I decide to call the raise because I like small pairs in raised pots, but also SB is ultra-loose and has been attempting to bluff a lot with less then adequate results!

Hero calls $8, MP Folds, SB Folds (Shows what I know)

Flop: 9h-3d-2s (Pot: $24)

Villain bets $20

Pot bet? I saw this as an over pair JJ-AA. I suppose the best way to play my hand is to “overplay top pair” on the board.

Hero raises $40 and makes it $60 total

Villain calls $40

This call makes me start thinking about the hand; I still can’t get over pair out of my head. Maybe he has a hand like JJ/1010 and is unsure whether I’ve limped UTG+1 with a bigger pair and slow played the flop.

Turn: 9h-3d-2s-3h (Pot: $144)

Villain bets $50

I start to feel a little sick in my stomach at the prospect of him having 99, surely not? Why come out betting $20 into $24 with the nuts on a beautiful board? So we have 99, A3? (Thinks I was making play on flop) or we have an over pair.
There is no way I can get away from the hand anyway, besides I have too much invested.

Hero calls $50 and raises $93.65 and is all in, Villain calls $80.00 and is all in

Villain: 99 (Full house, Nines over Threes)
Hero: 22 (Full house, Twos over Threes)

Villain wins $401.50 from the main pot.

Villain has no information on me in this hand, as I never had any information on Villain. So I am still a little unsure whether I like the bet on the flop, I think he grossly overplayed the nuts and was quite lucky that I flopped a big hand also. Unless of course he thought I limped with a big hand and put me on an over pair, then the bet was very good. All credit to Villain, hand was easy to play but he got me to put my entire stack into the pot.

Thoughts?

Memeon

[Renton]

Raise preflop.

Postflop is standard.

Don't fold sets to better sets unless you are superdeepstacked (300bb+) and even then its tough.

[ChrisTheFish]

Standard. If he is very loose and you think he has AA, KK- probably better to get it all in on the flop.

[Memeon]

Im more interested in your thoughts of Villain opening for near the pot with the nuts against unknown Hero.

[Renton]

its a great spot to bet pot vs a table police kinda player (which you may be, i don't know) because it looks like a bluff. As for the strong lead on the turn, he just saw you raise him on the flop so he knows you have a good hand, he just doesn't want to chance you checking behind.

[Memeon]

its a great spot to bet pot vs a table police kinda player (which you may be, i don't know) because it looks like a bluff. As for the strong lead on the turn, he just saw you raise him on the flop so he knows you have a good hand, he just doesn't want to chance you checking behind.

Villain leading out into Loose-Aggressive Hero, I like this play. However in this hand Villain and Hero have no past experience, and perhaps 3-4 hands maximum.

My standard continuation bet would be around 2/3 to the pot against known Villain, or at least Villain how had been seated and has some type of style attached to me.

If the hand was reversed I would rather be betting half the pot or just over. I think this bet looks weaker and maybe a missed AJ-K type of hand, and gives some room for Villain to make a move. In the hand above Hero is left little hands that he can play over top here, besides on a stone cold bluff. Again though, he doesn't know me as Loose-Aggressive, unless he has been studying the table before seating.

Saying this, i like to bet 2/3 to the pot on a continuation bet for the same reason; your opponent really needs a hand to make a move over the top. You will see a lot more calling down then raising when opponent faces Loose-Aggressive player.

Maybe im over evaluating this hand, but it's an interesting bet to me lol

... Clearly not as whole though! ha

Memeon

[Warpe]

Why come out betting $20 into $24 with the nuts on a beautiful board?

If this is exactly how'd I play an overpair in villain's position, I'm not about to give you and the rest of the table a tell (slows down/downsizes bets) when I'm holding a monster. Villain prefers that you think he only has an overpair and, obviously, it worked.

[Memeon]

Why come out betting $20 into $24 with the nuts on a beautiful board?

If this is exactly how'd I play an overpair in villain's position, I'm not about to give you and the rest of the table a tell (slows down/downsizes bets) when I'm holding a monster. Villain prefers that you think he only has an overpair and, obviously, it worked.

Totally worked.

However im definatly not saying slow down in a hand, i personally never slow play. But i would always give my opponent enough room to hang themselves.

If for arguements sake Villain prefers that i think he has only an overpair as you suggest, then what hand does he think can call/reraise him? He is only leaving room for AA/KK or a set. He cannot be beaten, and doesn't leave any room for opponent to play in this pot.

(Unless they have 22, Called Memeon, and invests there stack...)

[Renton]

some people play all big hands fast

im one of those people. I almost never checkraise the flop with a big hand, i usually lead

[Memeon]

some people play all big hands fast

im one of those people. I almost never checkraise the flop with a big hand, i usually lead

Totally. Read my post above your last.

I think im not getting my point across very well lol.

There is nothing wrong with his play, and nothing wrong with mine.

My point was leading for less and giving opponent room to hang himself. Its a huge flop to only extract minimum. Obviously in this instance he doesn't as i had a big hand also.

[Warpe]

If for arguements sake Villain prefers that i think he has only an overpair as you suggest, then what hand does he think can call/reraise him? He is only leaving room for AA/KK or a set. He cannot be beaten, and doesn't leave any room for opponent to play in this pot.

Wha-?

You called his raise preflop. You told him you have a hand. 22, 33 and 99+ are all playing here for the most part, so the range isn't as narrow as all that. If you fold, so be it, he wasn't getting paid anyway.

I wouldn't get in the habit analyzing any villain's play based on what you would do in his spot. Down that path lies madness.

[Memeon]

If for arguements sake Villain prefers that i think he has only an overpair as you suggest, then what hand does he think can call/reraise him? He is only leaving room for AA/KK or a set. He cannot be beaten, and doesn't leave any room for opponent to play in this pot.

Wha-?

You called his raise preflop. You told him you have a hand. 22, 33 and 99+ are all playing here for the most part, so the range isn't as narrow as all that. If you fold, so be it, he wasn't getting paid anyway.

I wouldn't get in the habit analyzing any villain's play based on what you would do in his spot. Down that path lies madness.

Im already mad!

I agree with what you are saying Warpe.

I was just curious on how people would bet this flop.

I think i would lead for $15..

[benny999]

I want my monsters to blend in with my cbets with air as well. Maybe his cbet is always close to pot sized?
I agree it's not totally necessary...cbetting 2/3 pot does the same job, and there is still the turn and river to build the pot.