04-15-2006 03:20 PM
#1
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04-15-2006 03:36 PM
#2
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04-15-2006 03:46 PM
#3
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04-15-2006 03:57 PM
#4
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Yep, their range is huge at this point. Any PP or SC that dosen't hit auto-folds these flops and you'll take it down a high % of the time. | |
04-15-2006 03:58 PM
#5
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04-15-2006 04:06 PM
#6
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Pretty much all the time. You often times still have the best hand and, if not, at least can represent it enough to make leading profitbale. | |
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04-15-2006 04:09 PM
#7
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Everyone's answer for Flop 3 in particular interests me the most I think. Do you bet it and why? | |
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04-15-2006 04:13 PM
#8
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Getting tricky will only lead to messy situations where your no longer sure if their bluffing because you have shown weakness, or they have an A and your drawing almost dead. You could end up loosing a bigger pot or folding the best hand. | |
04-15-2006 04:30 PM
#9
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04-15-2006 04:39 PM
#10
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how do you know your relative hand strength unless you rep the board? | |
04-15-2006 04:55 PM
#11
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04-15-2006 05:06 PM
#12
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Then it depends on the board, position etc. Generally I'll be looking for a cheap showdown. I'm not too bothered about suckouts as I'm going to dump it to any serious aggression anyway. | |
04-15-2006 05:08 PM
#13
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04-15-2006 05:37 PM
#14
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04-15-2006 11:22 PM
#15
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So why do you bet flops 3,4, & 5 if you are afraid of any hand that calls you? Is it a value bet? No. Is it a bluff? No. Is it to protect your hand? Definitely not on 3 & 4 - and on 5 it's not to protect because you go into check/fold mode even if the draw doesn't complete. Would you agree that , on flops 3 & 4 especially, you are either way ahead or way behind? Why would you want to bet in this situation if your best hope is to go into check/fold mode? If they fold then you were way ahead to begin with and lost out on some value by not getting weaker hands to put money into the pot. So, in short, you force out weaker hands and induce action from better hands. | |
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04-16-2006 02:06 AM
#16
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Your hand may be good, but it's vulnerable. This is a situation where you want to end the hand quickly, and the perfect play may not be the best play for the situation. | |
04-16-2006 05:27 AM
#17
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04-16-2006 11:39 AM
#18
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04-16-2006 12:14 PM
#19
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What about the value you get from inducing bluffs from weaker hands? | |
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04-16-2006 12:39 PM
#20
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04-16-2006 01:10 PM
#21
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04-16-2006 01:39 PM
#22
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Regardless of the accutacy of the calculations, HU you WILL take the pot down at least half the time probably much higher, if you bet less than the pot, your making money. | |
04-16-2006 02:01 PM
#23
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04-16-2006 02:02 PM
#24
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Basically, you have don't have a clear idea what you're up against on any of these flops. The only way to find out is by betting. If you're called or raised, you're probably beaten, and can give up on the hand, except for the set of Qs with which I'd try to get all in on the flop (the redraw is enough to take aware any fear of hands that might beat you). |
04-16-2006 02:04 PM
#25
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04-16-2006 02:12 PM
#26
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Flop 1 | |
04-16-2006 02:15 PM
#27
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When I said I was guessing, I followed up with a challenge for you to change the numbers as you saw fit. The mathematical aproach comes up with a rock solid answer, so use it! | |
04-16-2006 02:16 PM
#28
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It's not solely to find out if you're beat or not. It's to take down the pot when you're not, which is the majority of the time. It's the same principle as the cbet. You're telling your opponents to fold unless they have something. If they don't you can assume they have a hand, and go from there. |
04-16-2006 02:26 PM
#29
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04-16-2006 02:31 PM
#30
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04-16-2006 02:33 PM
#31
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04-16-2006 02:41 PM
#32
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04-16-2006 03:05 PM
#33
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04-16-2006 03:14 PM
#34
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04-16-2006 03:37 PM
#35
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04-16-2006 03:55 PM
#36
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04-16-2006 04:55 PM
#37
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04-16-2006 05:23 PM
#38
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Here is a very interesting thread on this topic... | |
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04-16-2006 05:53 PM
#39
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04-16-2006 06:20 PM
#40
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i think betting every one of these flops 100% of the time against a typical player is a leak | |
04-16-2006 06:35 PM
#41
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04-16-2006 06:46 PM
#42
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Flop #1 is the only one I might surrender on. | |
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04-16-2006 06:47 PM
#43
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04-16-2006 07:00 PM
#44
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the only one i always bet is #6, sometimes ill bet #1 | |
04-16-2006 07:04 PM
#45
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04-16-2006 07:10 PM
#46
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04-16-2006 07:32 PM
#47
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04-16-2006 08:59 PM
#48
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04-16-2006 09:13 PM
#49
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Maybe I'm over-estimating my opp's aggression. I do think the safest move is the bet, without reads and early in the session, why push it by checking and getting into the gray area? If I have a read on the player, I might only bet most of these flops 30-50% of the time, but without reads, I'm not taking chances. | |
04-16-2006 09:21 PM
#50
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I like the idea of checking drawless boards. It's a bit useless vs. passives though. | |
04-16-2006 09:21 PM
#51
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All of this is good to say I guess, but I just recalled a similar situation that happened a few months ago to me at foxwoods. | |
04-16-2006 09:24 PM
#52
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If you have position on these hands, and are checked to, I will bet all of these flops, because it's simply incorrect not to. |
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04-16-2006 09:39 PM
#53
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04-16-2006 09:50 PM
#54
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I think we're at the point where we can take something that looks simple and make sure it's complex like Napoleon by the end of the thread. | |
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04-16-2006 10:23 PM
#55
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Just want everyone to know I respect your opinions. Hope I haven't come off looking like a jerk - just wanted to spark some discussion. | |
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04-16-2006 11:27 PM
#56
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04-16-2006 11:46 PM
#57
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04-16-2006 11:55 PM
#58
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04-17-2006 12:59 AM
#59
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ya poker is totally EZ | |
04-17-2006 02:45 AM
#60
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don't remember the exact hand history, but this was pretty much it. | |
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04-17-2006 03:03 AM
#61
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04-17-2006 05:04 AM
#62
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04-17-2006 07:28 AM
#63
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04-17-2006 07:29 AM
#64
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04-17-2006 08:33 AM
#65
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04-17-2006 10:17 AM
#66
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04-17-2006 10:37 AM
#67
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I don't know if this one of my HH's that martindcx1e commented on prompted him to start this good thread (and it's so long already that it's un-hijackable, I think), but this hand has been bugging me. | |
04-17-2006 10:45 AM
#68
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04-17-2006 10:46 AM
#69
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04-17-2006 10:47 AM
#70
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04-17-2006 10:57 AM
#71
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04-17-2006 11:01 AM
#72
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I agree but its definitely better than playing a big pot with second pair. | |
04-17-2006 11:06 AM
#73
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yes very true | |
04-17-2006 11:15 AM
#74
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I think some people have a hard time checking the flop because they can't handle that there gorgeous starting hand might be beaten now. Betting builds the pot with a sub-par hand and makes it harder to get away from. | |
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04-17-2006 11:34 AM
#75
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