Trying to Keep the Chin up

[fade177]

About 3 months ago when I just started posting here, I was doing pretty well for myself. The truth is that I feel I understand poker a bit better now (and doing worse) then I did when I was doing well. My reads are horrible lately, and I really need help learning how to read people better. I fold the best hand, I call with very little hope. I end up out thinking every situation, cause one thing I have a hard time doing as a person and a poker player is understanding why people do certain things. I've said this before, I'm a philosophy major, and I've always thought outside the box way the fuck out in left field. My head contemplates things that I can't even say to my parents without them giving me a weird look, and this hurts my poker game. My logic goes too far a lot. I raise AQo in MP get called by a person behind, board comes rags. Checked to me, my finger goes for the continuation bet and then my head steps in and goes wait, I'm thinking he has PP with that kind of call. I've got 6 outs to make a hand here, etc..... I'll check see and see where I stand. He bets half the pot, the head goes alright this isn't enough to force someone out, they gotta be askin for a call here, they prolly have JJ here, yada yada yada, I end up folding the best hand cause he was betting with his flush draw, which i myself probably would have done on a raggedy ass board but have completely out thunk myself. Back a few months ago I was making some great reads, and making great calls, but not the good folds. Now I feel I'm making better folds, and a bunch of dumb calls (Do you see the problem, in one at least I make some money). What can I do. Am I simply just to thoughtful (perhaps about the wrong things) for this game?

I'm trying like hell to get my poker game rolling. I love this game to death, play every day, post every day, read every day. Don't get me wrong I have other hobbies (teaching myself guitar, I'm a college golfer as well, with a job. I fully understand that poker does not engulf my entire life), but I'm gonna be in school for at least another 7 years probably, and would like to make some pretty good money with this. I know I have the math skills for this game (used to be an engineering major) and I can certainly think enough and fast enough, I just need help with my discipline.

Patience tips will help as well (not something I have a tremendous amout of), I've always worked hard at things and things come quickly to me when I work at them usually, and poker isn't one of these things (women aren't either, once again the thinking thing isn't a good thing with them). God gave me a lot of blessings, and when I find something I can't succeed at quickly, I get a bit frustrated, put my nose to the grindstone and normally suffer for a long time (hence why i'm always in here asking). I just feel that there must be someone in this forum who has been through what I'm feeling and can help me out. I get tired of feeling like my mind is meant for higher stakes, when honestly i'm beginning to feel 1) maybe I'm not meant for them, hell you can't even run a .05/.10 table (but I struggle to adjust to fish, listen to above ranting and raving) what makes you think you'll ever have success at 2/4 poker, 2) that I'm still just as fishy as them moron players and thats why I can't get anywhere, and 3) am I ever gonna be able to sustain my love for the game for an extended period of time if I can't look at my game and see success?

I read so many posts on here, and some of you are incredibly successful players, and I have no problem working hard, but some of you make it seem so easy. "Oh, I just took 2nd in a 1200 plyr. tourney and raked 2.4K, what a bunch of fish." when I'm thinking Those fucking fish called an All-in with Q high and caught a back door straight in the last tourney to knock me out so that i'm a wonderful 0 for a gazillion tournament ITM in my life. I know you guys have advice, and I'm sorry, this post means no offense to anyone. You guys are great guys with a great blessing and skill and have worked and paid your dues for it. But this is me trying to humble myself again and again by asking for someone's help? What do ya got for me....

[Fnord]

How bad are you running and in what games?

IT could just be happening. IT happens and IT sucks...

[fade177]

I had the BR up to about 475 dumped some on stars trying to get a roll going there for the gauntlet. My roll is at 50 on stars after putting like 175 there and my roll on tilt is at like 190 working off a 120 bonus from a redeposit of my 240 so i've lost 50 already there...

[fade177]

the 50 is my fault, I tried to move to the .25/.50 level again and make a run, played solid and wasn't gainin much ground just stayin where I was for like an hour or so and then lost it to the nut flush to a river board pairin full house, I was all in with the best of it, what ya gonna do, i think as much as I hate doing it, it's either 3 tabling the .05/.10 tables again or SnG's. I play well in SnG's, but for some reason i don't like to stick with them, I succeed more at them but don't feel i get the payout I deserve. Not like I'm getting paid off playing ring though....

[r8ed]

Your bankroll is low for .25/.50. Swings happen regardless. I sit there for hours at almost even at 25NL (suckouts offsetting gains or just cold cards) and avoid playing desperate. Then I'll hit a good streak and cash in. Last night I had several beats after being up. I was down almost 2 buyins. I waited patiently and finished up 2 buyins. I didn't play on tilt because my bankroll is big for my level. If you can eliminate the money factor and focus on poker, everything works itself out.

[Miffed22001]

ahem, read my sig
It does happen, as pointed out. Go back to basics, c-bet flops without thinking, fold to reraises without the goods. Stop thinking start playing. It comes back trust me

[Rondavu]

My logic goes too far a lot.

Your logic is failing a lot. That's because logic is not synonymous with emotion. You're allowing these elements to mingle and confuse. The two are apples and oranges, oil and water. I know your emotional if you mention impatience, or even make a post like this. Find a goal to differentiate these elements. Impatience and emotion are illogical by nature. An impatient or emotional person who allows it to carry over to the table can NOT win at poker longterm. Successful poker players make decisions based on information. They rarely tilt, because they are never results oriented. They make a decision, and live with it. If that decision was wrong, they make it a goal to NOT make the same mistake next time in a simlar situation. They don't get pissed. They just accept it as part of the learning process. Becoming a winning player is to lose. This is hard on you if you're not mentally prepared. You need to learn lessons, and you will lose money in the learning. If you get angry, you'll continue to make the same mistakes. Instead of making a change, you're throwing a chair against that virtual wall in your mind. This needs to stop. This is a cold game. It's about not making mistakes and forcing others to make them. Be cold. Be calculated. Make the better decisions.

Try an experiment. Go to the smallest stakes you can ($2), see a lot of flops for a fair price, and put all your money in when your hand is beating the board. Blow off some steam. Forget the reads. Just put it in with the best of it over and over again at a stakes level that can't damage you psychologically. Train yourself to be mathmatically sound before you start attempting to cheat math with tight reads. You're just not advanced enough to ride your reads yet. Play your cards before you play the player. At the low stakes, playing your cards is all that is required.

I think you need to gain perspective on how often your hand is the best, and how often you're beat. I think you'll be surprised to find out you're ahead a lot if you're a smart guy.

[Rondavu]

I was all in with the best of it, what ya gonna do?

So why are you mad at yourself? Don't be results oriented. You made a good decision. Keep making those and you win.

[joshuadzl]

One thing you'll here everygood player say bro is "Focus on decision poker, not results poker".

[Rondavu]

Very cliche, but very true and often ignored.

[drmcboy]

post count = 107... that's not even one a day if it's been 3+ months. . Posting hands is good, reading, comprehending and advising others is IMO even better. Nothing helped me understand (for example) when to bet the flop like telling other people to bet the flop.

[DeusX]

Fade,

I can sympathize with what you're going through, since it sounds like what I went through quite recently. My story (and I don't mean to hijakc your thread - I apologize in advance, I think this might help you) is that I went on a ring game rush about a little over a month ago - TAG was working great (Party Poker credited a bunch of people with $25 in their empty account, myself included since I had cashed out) so the fish were aplenty. Suffice to say, I won some and did not suffer any major bad beats. Shortly after this I cashed into Paradise Poker, and suffered around a 5-6 buyin downswing due to bad beats (all in a row too!). I kinda tilted to a degree (overaggressive) and I slowly but surely figured out that TAG isn't very effective vs the LAGs on Paradise 25NL (IMHO of course, some may dispute this) - this cost probably another 4 buyins (I'm relatively new to poker too - donk/fish call me whatever you want, definitely a slow learner though). It was an expensive lesson (luckily I was properly bankrolled) but I read more, got back to basics, and invoked some willpower to continue playing. I went through the whole emotional thing you did - I considered quitting poker entirely, thought I sucked and could never improve etc etc. Well in the last week or so, I think I've played through the worst of it and won some money back. My advice to you is simple:

1) You WILL play through this - I know when I was in that state this statement meant very little to me
2) Listen to Rondavu's advice - it's spot on - ie. back to basics (solidify your knowledge of the math) - play cards - I know, it feels like you're so far away from where you want to be, but face it, any worthwhile journey consists of many small steps (I'm personally also at the stage of playing cards, not poker, but hey, at least we can beat the fish)
3) Part of this may be related to adjusting to the new site - I've never played on Stars so I don't know how the play is, but what I've found is that when I switch sites, I usually lose some in order to get used to the players and software - hopefully someone more knowledgeable re poker and Stars can help you out here. There was some very basic info contained in a post a while back re the different poker strategies at work against one another (ie. TAG works well vs fish (loose passive), LAG works well vs TAG, tight passive/counterplay is ok vs LAG) - it was very basic but never occurred to me (I think I searched up LAG on the forum and it was a post by Rondavu). This fact, critical to your development as a poker player, cost me around 4 buyins to learn and I hope by telling you this I can save you from paying for this lesson. What I found is that all those posts I had read made so much more sense given the new context.

GL Fade and sorry for the rambling/unintended hijack post,

DX

PS and most importantly, this is the holiday season - spending time with family and friends is far more important than poker; after all its just a game (these two aspects of your life are the most important, don't ever take them for granted)

[fade177]

Thanks guys, and I average 1.3 posts per day lol. Maybe 1.31 now haha.....

[aislephive]

Poker is a game where you're going to be failing a lot (it is essentially a game of trial and error). I'm down 2 buyins the past two days but not the least bit worried. You need to quit playing results, who cares how much money you won in the session? What matters is that you played well, and if you did the money will come naturally. I think one person said it already, go drop down to the micro limits for a little while and just have fun and play. I do this every other day to have some fun and not worry about losing.

[Rondavu]

My friends get a little pissed off at me when we play our home game, because I have a huge bankroll and don't give a shit about their measly $5 buy in. I'll have a friggin blast making any crazy move I feel like. I'll bust on some stupid play and they'll look at me like "How is this guy making a living playing poker?" It's priceless. I'll be like "Wow, you guys are better than online players."

[strawman]

I lost three buy ins the other day.
AA vs. 78s hits King high flush
QQ vs. 74o hits Quad 7s
KK vs. A5s hits a 7 high straight.

Don't assume your bank roll is indicative of your play. Three people took my BIs and bumped their BR at my expense but I don't believe I played badly in any of the hands. I'm definately a superior player with my bankroll down 3 BI's than I was the week before when I could look at my BR with glee.

Additionally I wouldn't worry so much about reads at this level. With people popping in and out so fast I have a hard time even reading their name. What is there to read when someone hops onto the table, goes all-in and either doubles up and leaves, goes broke and leaves, or takes the blinds and does it again? I pay more attention to cards and position and try to play fundementally. I make the assumption my opponents don't know what they are doing and simple straight forward poker will beat them until they show me other wise, than I'll pay attention to them.

Also, I'm not sure playing every day or reading about it every day is constructive when learning something such as poker. I've found my biggest break throughs come after my performance level dips and my frustration is high and I simply step away and for a few days and let my mind work it out. Sometimes you need to digest what you know without the interferance of learning some new strategy or tactic.

From your posts it seems you are focused on money and not concentrating on your play. I don't see how the issues with your game can be resovled by moving from .50 to three tabling .10. I often find myself challenged by the flop in front of me and I imagine I'd be a deer to headlights with three.

I look at what little success I've had as the result of patience, good decisions, decisive decisions, agression, and a short term memory of the money I've lost on hands but not how the hands were played.

Good luck rebounding of the bad run.