AKo, AA, & QQ hands

[p-i]

Hi, I'm a newb to both FTR and poker, pretty much (about a month), but I've been reading lots (TOP, SSH, Holdem; 2+2 forums, various poker blogs, FTR). Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much of it is sticking when I do stuff like this (sorry for no converter but these hands are from Pacific small stakes NLHE):

AKo vs. 44

I'm in MP somewhere. SB calls my PFR, flops his set of 4's. I make a pot bet on the flop (4hKhQs, or similar), he calls, it's HU. Turn completes the flush, we both check. River is a blank, he bets and I call.

Am I always paying off a set here or should I have been looking to bail after he called my pot sized bet? I actually thought he might be on a flush draw, so his check on the turn threw me. Should I have heavily bet the turn after he checked, representing the flush? In hindsight that seems like a far superior play to checking but it leaves me vulnerable to a reraise if he has a flush. The river call from me is just plain stupid, right?

AA

I'm dealt AA on the button. UTG min-raises, a few callers, I reraise to 13xbb. UTG calls and so does the deep stacked (5x buy-in) guy in MP2. My read on UTG is that he's pretty loose and that I probably have him beat. MP2 I've watched collect other peoples stacks with pretty straightforward TAG play. He's my main worry.

Flop: Ks5hKh

Well, bugger. Kx beats me and there's a flush-draw. UTG goes all-in, MP2 calls, I fold.

Easy fold, I think? The results certainly indicate it: UTG shows Kx, MP2 shows 79s(!). Which changes my view of DeepStack to pretty loose, right? I mean, calling 80% of a buy-in with that is pretty, uhm, silly, isn't it?

QQ

The very next hand I get pocket Hiltons. I don't raise as much (5xbb). 4 callers. Flop: 4s6d8s. Not great but much better than the last one. Checked around to me and I all-in (!?). Two callers, including DeepStack that won the last hand. Turn is the Ah and I think, "Damn, I've lost to a pair of aces." River: 5s, completing the spade flush. Mr. DeepStack flips 56o for the rivered two pair.

Preflop, I'm 81% favourite; flop, 65%; turn, 80%.

Was my all-in really that terrible on this board? Or is his call completely wacky?

Those three hands burned about 1.5 buy-ins altogether so any advice is greatly appreciated. Of the three, I think my play with AKo is probably the worst (-.5 buy-ins). Folding bullets was pretty standard (-.1 buy-ins). Losing QQ (-.8 buy-ins) I think is just unlucky but the fact I lost so much would indicate bad play.

Anyway, I'm glad to have joined FTR and hopefully with your advice I can become a better player (can't get that much worse ).

[Irisheyes]

1) I bet about 1/2 to 1/3 the pot on the turn to see how serious this guy is. You don't want to give the villan a free card. If he calls I value bet the river hoping he shows down KJ or similar. If I bet the turn and he raises I probably fold. Thats a typical betting pattern for a set. I also fold if he raises the river big.

2) With your read on the big stack its a really good fold. Most noobs can't fold AA. If its just me and the UTG I call his push. But the was the big guy just calls changes things completely. Its like he has a K and wants you so stay in so he doesn't raise.

3) Don't change your raise. Pick a standard raise that gets 1 or 2 callers and stick with it. (Hand 2 is different though because UTG minraised).

Welcome to bad beats. You'll see a lot of them so get used to it.
In saying that though pushing the flop probably wasn't the best way to play this hand.

By the way its probably a good idea not to post the results of your hands in future because it tends to influence peoples posts.

Welcome to the boards!

[p-i]

1) I bet about 1/2 to 1/3 the pot on the turn to see how serious this guy is. You don't want to give the villan a free card. If he calls I value bet the river hoping he shows down KJ or similar. If I bet the turn and he raises I probably fold. Thats a typical betting pattern for a set. I also fold if he raises the river big.

Cool, that sounds like a good way to identify a set, and save some money.

2) With your read on the big stack its a really good fold. Most noobs can't fold AA. If its just me and the UTG I call his push. But the was the big guy just calls changes things completely. Its like he has a K and wants you so stay in so he doesn't raise.

That's exactly what I was thinking at the time. Had it only been the UTG in I probably would have called (and lost to trips, undoubtably). I'm trying to discipline myself with AA/KK/QQ since I've found that I often just showdown with them no matter what the board is showing.

3) Don't change your raise. Pick a standard raise that gets 1 or 2 callers and stick with it. (Hand 2 is different though because UTG minraised).

Really? So I should raise AK the same as AA the same as TT? Is that so I can bluff post-flop easier?

Welcome to bad beats. You'll see a lot of them so get used to it.
In saying that though pushing the flop probably wasn't the best way to play this hand.

By the way its probably a good idea not to post the results of your hands in future because it tends to influence peoples posts.

Makes sense.

Welcome to the boards!

Thanks!

[Irisheyes]

3) Don't change your raise. Pick a standard raise that gets 1 or 2 callers and stick with it. (Hand 2 is different though because UTG minraised).

Really? So I should raise AK the same as AA the same as TT? Is that so I can bluff post-flop easier?

Its so you don't give away information about the strength of your hand preflop. If you have one raise for AK and a different on for AA I can tell which hand you have. Not what you want.

[nickthefool]

the fact I lost so much would indicate bad play

Thinking that was probably the most incorrect thing you did while playing poker.

[p-i]

the fact I lost so much would indicate bad play

Thinking that was probably the most incorrect thing you did while playing poker.

Not really. I quit after that hand since I was going (really) tilty. I've made a note on the DeepStack who called with middle-pair/gutshot draw. Although, looking at it now he had 10 outs so his pot odds were 2/3 of what they should have been. It's a mistake, sure, but not as large as I thought it was at the time.

Its so you don't give away information about the strength of your hand preflop. If you have one raise for AK and a different on for AA I can tell which hand you have. Not what you want.

I can see why. I'm just getting a bit sick of QQ+ losing that I want to announce to the table, "I have AA, call me if you dare" with my PFR. I want to take it down preflop. It's stupid, and something that I need to willfully correct, but that's the psychology behind it.

As an aside, the raise should always be the same, regardless of position? So my weaker hands that I play from the button get raised exactly the same as AA/KK from EP/MP/LP? Seems slightly counter-intutitive but it doesn't expose my holding so it does make sense.

[Pelion]

Really? So I should raise AK the same as AA the same as TT? Is that so I can bluff post-flop easier?

I raise every hand to 12c (6BB). Partly because iRICHeyes is correct and you dont want to raise a different amount for every hand or your raise amount becomes a tell, and partly because people will call with crap that they have little pot equity with and most of the money comes in postflop, and partly because the one thing virtually all of my raises have in common (and the one thing 6BB accomplishes) is that 12c makes some people fold. If i can make the top straight draw fold when i hold 7 8 and then the flop comes 9 10 J then good for me. If i can make someone think i hold AK when i hold 78 on that same flop then wow is that good for me.

At the lower limits i dont think most people are paying that much attention to your bet sizes (but you MUST make sure the guy you are in the pot with is'nt that ONE observent guy at the table if it will matter) but as you go up people will.

The 3 most important reasons i like 12BB at my stakes are:

1) People call with junk, then fold with junk. - 12 BB builds a pot which i then cbet them off of whether i have hit or not. The bigger the pot people will call preflop, whilst still folding postflop when they dont hit, the bigger your cbetting profit.

2) People still call with dominated hands e.g. KQ when i hold AK - This is very important and alows you to play for stacks with just TPTK if you have been watching the players. I think this is the single most profitable situation in low limit NLHE against bad players.

3) It builds a pot for people to stack off in with TPGK when i have overpairs but if i raised less there would be more callers and my overpair would likely be behind to 2 pair or better and the TPGK would be less likely to commit his stack.

Edit: of course there are more reasons to chose a bet size than this but the reasons behind the descision are similar. e.g. you can chose to make your raise 3BB + 1 BB for every limper. Even if they crack your pattern, all an outsider can work out from this is that you are raising 3BB + 1 BB for every limper. It doesnt distinguish between AA and 78s so it is a good way to make raises. If you raise 12BB with AA, 11BB with KK, 10 BB with AK ........3 BB with 22-88 etc then an observent opponent will know excactly what you hold before the flop when only 35% or so of your hand has been defined and that can only be a bad thing.

[p-i]

Thanks for you reply, Pelion

I'm going to go with 3BB + 1BB per limper for now. Of course, that kind of puts me at a disadvantage in EP (?). I guess it also partly depends on the table and the stakes. But once you've found an optimal raise (taking into consideration the three points you made) for the table/stakes then just stick to it.

So, how about reraises? Just double or 6BB + 2BB per caller? I'm thinking double unless that's less than 3BB + 1BB per limper.

Thanks and happy holidays

[Irisheyes]

As an aside, the raise should always be the same, regardless of position? So my weaker hands that I play from the button get raised exactly the same as AA/KK from EP/MP/LP? Seems slightly counter-intutitive but it doesn't expose my holding so it does make sense.

Well it doesnt have to always be the same. If your in LP with AA and the whole table has limped in in front of you obviously a bigger raise is appropriate because there is so many people you want to push out. Just make sure you aren't changing your raise on the basis of the strength of your hand.

[Pelion]

Thanks for you reply, Pelion

I'm going to go with 3BB + 1BB per limper for now. Of course, that kind of puts me at a disadvantage in EP (?). I guess it also partly depends on the table and the stakes. But once you've found an optimal raise (taking into consideration the three points you made) for the table/stakes then just stick to it.

So, how about reraises? Just double or 6BB + 2BB per caller? I'm thinking double unless that's less than 3BB + 1BB per limper.

Thanks and happy holidays

Raises and reraises: Experiment. Decide what the raise is for and then play about at your stakes before you find the size that best does it. With most reraises (especially preflop) im looking for just the original raiser to call to build the pot and isolate. Ill reraise to the highest i think i can and still have him call. Typically this is about 3x their bet but it can be anywhere from 2x their bet to me pushing allin, depending on who im playing against.