curtains almost-allin concept

[eugmac]

curtains - L403: W vs hibris [27:23]

Yeah it's a chess video by chess/poker player Greg “Curtains” Shahade, but he talks poker here about the idea of leaving 1 chip behind instead of going all-in in typical shoving situations.

More here:
Why You Should Never Go All-In | SickRead.com

Thoughts?

[fulksy]

I actually use to do this when i first started playing sngs, i guess its probably +EV to do it still

[taipan168]

Only really applies in the specific situation where you're on the bubble as the short stack. I see players do this in other situations and can't understand why you'd leave yourself with the non-zero chance that you misclick fold when somebody shoves over.

[dneureiter]

Only really applies in the specific situation where you're on the bubble as the short stack. I see players do this in other situations and can't understand why you'd leave yourself with the non-zero chance that you misclick fold when somebody shoves over.

pretty much this...

Although making your standard raise to 375 with 400 total can get u more folds from masstablers who just fold rags missing that they are priced in.

[ed cooper]

good points from dneur and tai...

not listened to vid yet so it may cover what im about to say.. i understand the point it s making, but what about the times you make that fold but then would have won the hand (by having best hand or sucking out)?
so in example given in (think there are 2 hearts on flop) say youre all in pre and the board and rvr produce runner runner so you make your nut flush..
cant recall stack sizes but now you have a more significant chance of winning instead of 'settling for 3rd'.

it seems the calculations involved would be infinite to account for the times when you lose/bubble versus the times you win then go on to finish 1st/2nd..

when we make our decisions to go all in pre, we re hopefully making a +ev decision. this decision implicitly includes events where we lose the hand, run into a better hand, suck out etc. from my limited understanding +ev is +ev. why would we want to deviate from this truth just for the 'immediate ev' of now?

will try to watch vid today. feel free to correct me if im missing sth. hope ive conveyed clearly whats been in my head since yesterday..

[Nakamura]

Both Taipan and DN touched on good points.

Cons

- Potential to mis-click
- Potential to fold a substantial part of your stack if you disconnect from the poker room
- Your range is often unbalanced .... are you doing this with your top 5% of hands?
- Multi-tablers will often have to click twice when they only have to click once by shoving AI PF (this is the biggest neg IMO)

Pros

- Multi-tablers will often miss how much you have behind.
- Your opponents may call and then be forced out of pot, when you effectively can't, leaving behind dead chips.
- Leave yourself a chance of finishing higher if the pot gets checked down.

I played a lot of 6-max games with a 50/50 payout structure. I will often leave behind a small amount as the smallest stack because the structure and big blinds encourage implicit collusion. The big stack doesn't usually want to force out the middle stack by making a 200 chip bet when I have a small amount of chips left. Often this will get checked down to the river, but I have the option of getting all my chips in if I flop well.

I only do this occasionally. Here are some examples from yesterday.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 50/100 Blinds 20 Ante (3 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) (t373)
SB (t1877)
BB (t750)

Hero's M: 1.78

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, 9
Hero bets t300, 2 folds

Total pot: t310

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 50/100 Blinds 20 Ante (3 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) (t395)
SB (t1925)
BB (t680)

Hero's M: 1.88

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4, 5
Hero bets t300, 2 folds

Total pot: t310

[TLR]

Do you think there is a downside for using it in live games ?

[Nakamura]

Do you think there is a downside for using it in live games ?

I can't think of any. Most of the cons above relate to online play. Throwing in a few strong hands for balance seems unnecessary given that you will probably only make the play 2 or 3 times in a live game.