AK question

[BIGandRICH]

right, this has been bugging me for a while now..
You have AK in late pos and there is a 4BB raise before you, what do you do? -
1. If it folds to you
2. if there is one caller of the raise
3. There is multiple callers of the raise before you

i just find that if i call i'm in a weak position.. and if i raise i'm investing alot preflop for an unmade hand.. at 25NL and 50NL it seems like this wouldnt be wise

[Ivory]

for me it depends on the table, my mood, and the size of my stack at the time. i either limp or go in raising, mostly though i raise with it.

i would raise in all 3 situations just to see who really wants to play

edit: although i might be learning bad habits from playing low limits as the crap those guys raise with is awful.

[BIGandRICH]

yes, this is what i think i should be doing.. but if i'm at a table of calling stations, who will call the raise on junky hands.. and call the flop un improved, it just seems risky

[Rondavu]

I never reraise AK in cash game unless I have a weak read on my opponent, or the original raise was pathetic (2xBB).

[BIGandRICH]

I never reraise AK in cash game unless I have a weak read on my opponent.

ahh thankyou rondavu, was hoping to get a reply from you.. so big pairs only to reraise hey? AA, KK.. and QQ?

[Ivory]

if you dont raise ak, aren't you allowing yourself to get in all sorts of trouble after the flop... i dont think only raising big pairs is a good strategy. you guys are more experienced than me but thats my thoughts on it. as for needing a weak read on your opponent to raise it....i thought ak was a strong hand...

[EricE]

I know I am profitable with AK (at my stakes) using my strat. I reraise in LP in any of those scenarios. If they reraise big then I drop it assuming they have high PP. Usually this leaves you HU against the original raiser. Then, since I am now the aggressor in the hand, I continuation bet on the flop regardless of what hits. Usually they will fold there. On the turn I can decide to drop it or not.

By not reraising AK you are assuming they have a made hand which I think is a mistake. They could be raising with AQ, KQ, etc.

[Rondavu]

if you dont raise ak, aren't you allowing yourself to get in all sorts of trouble after the flop... i dont think only raising big pairs is a good strategy. you guys are more experienced than me but thats my thoughts on it. as for needing a weak read on your opponent to raise it....i thought ak was a strong hand...

I'm going to admit that my style of play is unconventional. I don't want to mislead and encourage my way of playing AK. It just becomes dangerous to represent unimproved in my opinion if you already have a good amount of isolation 1-3 people (I play 6 max). Say a solid player raises TT, and you re-raise AK. The flop comes out all rags and now you feel the need to represent. You get into trouble. I'd be more inclined to reraise AK in full ring. Most definately.

I like calling preflop raises with AK if I know isolation is achieved, because I like allowing an aggressor to stay aggressive with a dominated hand in most cases. Say they raise KQ, and you just smooth call a preflop raise. Three people to the flop which comes out K75. You didn't invest a lot, and now you hit the best hand most likely. If no king or ace popped, then just fold to aggression.

If you represented preflop, then what just happened is your implied odds became diminished somewhat postflop. If you go nuts after re-raising preflop on that board (K75), then your opponent will guess aces and fold, or feel beat and seek cheap showdown. Even worse, your opponent could have a hand that beats yours already, and will now take advantage of a reverse trap (You represented what they had... a high pocket).

I started playing AK this way as part of my personal "don't get married to AK" therapy if you will. I think it's a great way to learn how to treat this unimproved hand if you consistently hang on to it too long. Pot investment is bad news for people who can't instafold such a great holding.

It is bad to only re-raise high pockets preflop as you say ivory. That's why I'm inclined to represent AA holding anything if the person I'm isolating is notoriously loose preflop. I could have 72 off and reraise for all I care. Representation is representation. AK is just another unimproved hand that you could represent with. It is the best one, but still unimproved.

It's my opinion that you could get away with only ever reraising pairs (22-AA), and remain unpredictable. That's all you can really ask is to be unpredictable when reraising right?

[Miffed22001]

I think i generally agree with Rondavu.
I wouldnt reraise with AK unless in full ring (where i dont play much anyway)
Preflop anybody reraising/pushing has a made hand therefore you waste chips as i guess you have to fold here (how often out of interest does this scenario occur?) Of course when the flop comes down you have to bet or reraise possibly suggesting AA?kk imo as you are the aggressor. Probably you can bluff enough pots here to make this workable?.
Therefore imo you call behind with AK. Ok some flops are going to miss you eg Queen high or rags, but with an ace or king on the board you can call down behind then reraise turn/river. I'd would suggest this play could be more +ev than reraising as you will get the opp to commit chips post flop if the flop hits you with AK.
just my .02 cents.

[Rondavu]

I'd would suggest this play could be more +ev than reraising as you will get the opp to commit chips post flop if the flop hits you with AK.

I'm not sure about the EV. I do know that AK has bad implied odds in general. If you poison the very little implied odds it does have with unimproved preflop representation, than what kind of big pot are you hoping to win? The answer is either a small pot if you hit (preflop money), a total steal (preflop money), or a domination against a loose opponent

There's the implied odds. The last option. Why not make a good player loose by letting them think they have the best hand when dominated?

[DimitriT]

I never reraise AK in cash game unless I have a weak read on my opponent, or the original raise was pathetic (2xBB).

I agree. I'll call the bet from most opps but..

I will consider reraising is if I think the initial raise is a steal attempt. Then I will pull a Harrington Squeeze play with a reraise. For instance UTG+1 and MP1 limp in, MP3 raises to 4x (say $1 in 25NL). I know MP3 is aggressive and I also know UTG+1 and MP1 like to limp garbage. Here I can put in an 10x reraise (to $2.50 in 25NL). This will put the squeeze on the limpers because now they saw two sources of strength and can't tell if MP3 will reraise. MP3 will also likely fold it since he was just trying to steal it from the weak hands.

Harrington says he will do this with any 2 cards but I won't try this without some kind of hand.

[The_Cheat]

AK is just another unimproved hand that you could represent with. It is the best one, but still unimproved.

quoted for truth

the think about AK is that even when improved, its vulnerable. AK needs a lot of help. Say you do spike your king and you get in a pissing match with the original raiser, you put him on KQ someone goes all-in, and he shows that he spiked his sevens to pwn you outright.

thats the problem for me and AK, is that its hard to get away from when you do improve it cause you think you are golden. When you are holding your other premiums and they improve, you are in a much better posistion than your TPTK holding AK. I dont like AK.

[CFANG]

despite the stregnth of AK i like to be the one in control of the hand with it. With just a raise and a call it seems like the table may be tighter and I might not even get involved. If its a multi way pot then i prefer the hand to be suited because with this many people around completing a strong draw can pay off huge. If there are no callers before you then take the opportunity to play a good hand with a positional advantage. Whatever you go for make shure not to get married to the hand. This isn't a SnG so you can often just avoid situations you don't feel you can play that well and find better spots.

[Fjaman]

I always like to raise AK preflop and raise 1/2 - 2/3 of the pot regardless if i hit or miss i have found this strat to work most of the time on the .25/.50 tables, and if someone calls you you can always throw them on the turn if you dont suspect a flush or str8 draw then raise 1/2 again...
If the pot has already been raised i ponder a call and try and hit or a reraise to see where im at in the hand, a large reraise meaning high PP and then i just throw it away

[Coop]

I like to reraise with AK to get information. Saw this in my live game last night, but it was my opponent that had big slick. I had AA and rasied it to 15 (1-2NL) from early. 2 from button raises me to 35 (he has AKo) and the button calls his bet. I'm looking at AA and have 85 in the pot, so I'm all in. In my opinion, my opponent has played it right to this point. He reraise my early raise to see what he was up against, and he found out. One caller for 15 x BB and an initail raiser throwing all-in. Pretty good bet one of us has AA or KK. Now he can lay it down with no further damage. Fortunately for me, he did not take in the information he had gained and called my all-in. The button folded. Talk about a dream heads-up!

[Bmxicle]

I'll call him, raise him or fold....

[BIGandRICH]

I'll call him, raise him or fold....

yeh i usually do one of those too

[Bmxicle]

I'm just trying to make a point, that there is no clear cut answer. It depends on my image, raisers image, stack sizes, past hands, my mood (not tilt, but whether i'm feeling aggro or passive) and other factors.

[BIGandRICH]

ahh i see now.. thankyou for the clarification

[r8ed]

There are many factors, but this a forum where you want other people's opinions. I'm glad this post is here because AK is difficult to play and it's good to see other's reasons for playing it certain ways.

When you watch TV, every time somebody gets big slick the announcers act like they just won the tournament. But as players on here point out, it's an unmade hand. How to make money off it without over or under playing it is the difficult part. If you overplay it, you win little. If you underplay it, you can lose big if you aren't extremely careful.

Of course tournaments are different from ring, but the perception that AK is a monster money maker is there and gets many beginners into trouble. When I first started, it took me a while to realize that it's OK to lay it down and hitting a K or A isn't a gauranteed victory.

When I play full ring $25NL, I'm raising preflop to isolate if possible. If I take a small pot, I take a small pot. If I hit a very favorable flop, I'll try to extract money as long as I can do so without huge risk. If I run into aggression on a scary board, I'll lay it down if I respect opponent's aggression. That's the best I can do right now. I'll wait for a disguised trips to take a huge pot down with.

Thanks for the insight all. You guys are thinking levels higher than me. I hope to get there some day.

[Iconoclastic]

Generally call the raise preflop with AK.

A better question would be, If you call and someone else reraises AFTER you, what do you do with a ton of money in the pot assuming the original raiser calls and a bigger chance you're dominated?

[The_Cheat]

Generally call the raise preflop with AK.

A better question would be, If you call and someone else reraises AFTER you, what do you do with a ton of money in the pot assuming the original raiser calls and a bigger chance you're dominated?

AK is only dominated by AA and KK. I will call a decent sized bet into a large pot that i am already dick deep in just about every time. the implied odds are huge in that scenario, especially with only two hands that domintate you.

granted those two hands are the only ones likely to make such a move, but still, in a full ring game, i chase that pot all damn day.

[Laeelin]

How do ya'll like to handle AK on the flop/turn when you miss? (harder question I know)

[BIGandRICH]

if i was the preflop raiser i throw out a 2/3 pot to pot sized bet most times.. it depends on a few things though... i wouldnt bet it if 6 players called my raise.. if i just called a raise preflop i often dont bet either because i feel that i'm not in an assertive enough position and the preflop raiser could quite easily re-raise me just to see where things are.

I'm undecided as to what i'll do on the turn, if i'm still in and havent paired.. it becomes much more of a player based decision on the turn