AJs....

[BobbySalami]

Well, my first problem here was being shortstacked....didnt rebuy fast enough, so I couldnt really strike fear into anyone with my itty-bitty stack, but anyways..........

After my raise on the flop I didnt feel that anyone had flopped the flush since the saw I liked my hand and didnt have much money left......and then the call and a check on the turn I felt had to be a drawing hand with the :As: or :Ks:...so I pushed what I had left to try and make them pay for the last card.

Any thoughts of what I should be thinking here, or should I be done after the smooth call on the flop?

POKERSTARS GAME #2384796929: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/08/20 - 20:52:56 (ET)
Table 'Bootes II' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: glittergulch ($14.30 in chips)
Seat 2: Aversa ($4.25 in chips)
Seat 3: splifman ($13.10 in chips)
Seat 4: jreal567 ($6.55 in chips)
Seat 5: ikm2005 ($5.25 in chips)
Seat 6: BigMaky ($9.65 in chips)
Seat 7: BobbySalami ($4.85 in chips)
Seat 8: DataCzar ($5.10 in chips)
Seat 9: Jellyfold ($10 in chips)
Jellyfold: posts small blind $0.05
glittergulch: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BobbySalami [Jh Ah]
Aversa: raises $0.10 to $0.20
splifman: folds
jreal567: folds
ikm2005: folds
BigMaky: folds
BobbySalami: calls $0.20
DataCzar: folds
Jellyfold: calls $0.15
glittergulch: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [2s 7s Js]
Jellyfold: checks
glittergulch: bets $0.40
Aversa: calls $0.40
BobbySalami: raises $1.10 to $1.50
Jellyfold: folds
glittergulch: folds
Aversa: calls $1.10
*** TURN *** [2s 7s Js] [9c]
Aversa: checks
BobbySalami: bets $3.15 and is all-in
Aversa: calls $2.55 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [2s 7s Js 9c] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***

Any reads?

[IowaSkinsFan]

I think this guy already has the flush... he just called on the flop twice, its kinda fishy, he's just letting you bet because he knows you have a strong hand.

[BobbySalami]

It was opps 2nd hand at the table = no reads

[FishMagician]

You should try and see a showdown as cheap as possible. Check the turn, see what happens on the river.

[BobbySalami]

You should try and see a showdown as cheap as possible. Check the turn, see what happens on the river.

But I dont want to give the possible flush draw a free card do I?

[FishMagician]

You also don't want to put all your money in vs a made flush. This is a cruddy situation, so whatever you do could be wrong, but I like checking the turn, and if no spade comes call any bet on the river.

You could also potentially get someone with the A of spades to bluff you here, where they might fold to your turn ai.

[BobbySalami]

You also don't want to put all your money in vs a made flush. This is a cruddy situation, so whatever you do could be wrong, but I like checking the turn, and if no spade comes call any bet on the river.

You could also potentially get someone with the A of spades to bluff you here, where they might fold to your turn ai.

I geuss how I could see I could have made for a cheaper showdown by checking behind on the turn.....

But at the moment I was thinking he was on the flush draw and was really really really hoping for a fold on the turn.

But also, if I intend on calling any bet on the river, why not just push AI with the hopes that they fold...or is that too murky of a situation since I may be up against a made hand?

[FishMagician]

But also, if I intend on calling any bet on the river, why not just push AI with the hopes that they fold...or is that too murky of a situation since I may be up against a made hand?

If he has the flush and you bet: You lose $2.55

If he has the flush and you check turn and call river: You lose $2.55 most of the time, but enough times you lose less. Maybe he checks to try and induce a bluff, maybe he tries to milk less out of you.

He has one spade and you push: Does he call without odds?
If he does, you win the pot +2.55 80 percent of the time. If he doesn't, you win what's in the pot right now 100 percent of the time.

He has one spade and you check turn/call river: Does he bluff a missed flush here ever? Often? Always?

Alot of people will bet this when you show weakness on the turn, so IF he would fold without the flush on the turn and IF he might bluff on the river, then you make money here than you wouldn't make without it.

So I guess the advantages of checking will come only if the guy will a) bluff his missed draws or b) not go AI on the river with a made hand. Also, you Definitely save money if a fourth spade comes.

So, maybe I'm wrong. I am wrong alot, but that's what I'd do.

[journey075]

You should try and see a showdown as cheap as possible. Check the turn, see what happens on the river.

But I dont want to give the possible flush draw a free card do I?

pot control > giving bad pot odds (in this situation).

[BobbySalami]

thanks fishmagician, how you laid out all the options like that I can see how checking behind on the turn would have been a better option and probably would have saved me a bit of cash in this situation like journey says.

Weird hand overall, heres the results, I sure didnt put him on KK.....

Aversa: shows [Ks Kd] (a pair of Kings)
BobbySalami: mucks hand
Aversa collected $8.85 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.30 | Rake $0.45
Board [2s 7s Js 9c 6h]
Seat 1: glittergulch (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Aversa showed [Ks Kd] and won ($8.85) with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: splifman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: jreal567 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ikm2005 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: BigMaky folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: BobbySalami mucked [Jh Ah]
Seat 8: DataCzar (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Jellyfold (small blind) folded on the Flop