Does this show how fishy I am?

[Molinero]

The other night, for the first time I can remember, I ran into AA with KK in my hand. Here's roughly how it played out.

UTG (who had been raising about every other hand) raised to about 3 BB. Fold to me; I raise to about 12-15 BB. Player to my left goes all-in short of my bet. Fold to Button, who goes all in over the top of me. Fold to me.

As soon as Button moved in, I put her on AA or possibly KK; there was no hesitation at all. Here's the problem, though: I called.

Seems like the "correct" play is to fold if I put her on an overpair, be it AA v. KK or 33 v. 22. Right?

As it turns out, I flopped a set and rivered quads -- which would've been a lot more exciting if she had caught a set, too. But I was really rattled later when it occured to me that I never even entertained the possibility of folding.

So...did I blow it and get lucky? Do you make this call? Or is this an "easy lay-down"?

[dalecooper]

Well, it's not an easy laydown, because most players refuse to ever put anyone on aces. The advice you'll get from almost everyone is: kings are rarely beat pre-flop, ignore your read and push all-in.

I would say only this. If you really, really know your opponent, and know they're pushing with aces, and you call with kings - that's a bad play. You're just hoping to suck out, and your odds are much worse than on most starting hands. 72o is more likely to beat AKs, than KK is to beat AA. But to make this laydown, you'd have to have a great read and near-incontrovertible evidence. Otherwise you're a pansy.

And who am I to talk, anyway. On this hand I had a strong notion that the re-raiser had aces or kings, but I talked myself into a bad push on the idea that maybe he was over-eager with AK. Sucked out like you did too, but that doesn't mean it was a good play.


***** Hand History for Game 1594379072 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Tuesday, February 15, 09:26:16 EDT 2005
Table Cash n Cash (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: stressball10 ( $23.5 )
Seat 3: monkeycal ( $21.25 )
Seat 5: Hompo ( $39.75 )
Seat 6: doggyballs84 ( $15.9 )
Seat 9: DonZottie ( $23.5 )
Seat 8: riproren ( $35.35 )
Seat 10: holdmyjunk ( $29.25 )
Seat 4: NOFREECARDZ ( $25.45 )
Seat 7: dubbledeuce ( $25 )
Seat 1: issatsi ( $23.9 )
issatsi posts small blind [$0.25].
stressball10 posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Qs Qc ]
monkeycal folds.
NOFREECARDZ calls [$0.5].
Hompo folds.
doggyballs84 raises [$1].
dubbledeuce calls [$1].
DonZottie folds.
holdmyjunk folds.
issatsi folds.
stressball10 raises [$2.5].
NOFREECARDZ folds.
doggyballs84 raises [$9].
dubbledeuce folds.
stressball10 is all-In [$20.5]
doggyballs84 is all-In [$5.9]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, Tc, Qh ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4d ]
doggyballs84 shows [ As, Ad ] a pair of aces.
stressball10 shows [ Qs, Qc ] three of a kind, queens.
stressball10 wins $7.6 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, queens.
stressball10 wins $31.9 from the main pot with three of a kind, queens.

[Phew72]

As others on this forum have mentioned before - If you can't push all-in w/ KK when can you?

For KK also read: AA & AK.

Although dalecooper does have a point:

If you really, really know your opponent, and know they're pushing with aces, and you call with kings - that's a bad play.

I've done it versus AA and AK (and A8s) all in the same hand, lucked out with the one remaining K on the flop and won a huge pot.
The point is I think 90% of people who post in this forum have probably been in the same boat at some time or other.

I don't think I'd worry too much about it.

[TylerK]

What stakes are you playing? I'm calling every time here at low stakes, no question about it. We've all seen the junk some of these people move in with.

[UG]

Okay, so you have KK. You throw down a nice preflop raise and somebody comes way over the top of you. It's totally normal to have it cross your mind that, "hey, this guy might have aces." You're probably crazy if you don't at least think that.

The majority of the time you'll find out your opponent does NOT have AA, and you'll be okay. Sometimes he will. When that happens you'll have to say to yourself, "Dang it, I made the right play, that's just bad luck." Not, "OMG I *knew* he had AA but I still called anyway."

This is similar to when people "know something bad happened to their loved one because they didn't come home by a certain time." 99% of the time they're just running a little late. They end up coming home, and you forget about how you "knew something bad happened to them." But it's that 1% of the time when they end up truly missing that you say "OMG I KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG, I JUST HAD A FEELING ABOUT IT."

Bad analogy, but it works. Sometimes your feeling about running into AA will be right, but the majority of the time you'll be wrong.

THROW DOWN WITH KK. At least that's how me feels.

[dalecooper]

Lovely kings, lovelier aces:


***** Hand History for Game 1595559143 *****
$50 NL Hold'em - Tuesday, February 15, 16:27:37 EDT 2005
Table Hearts of Fire (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: stinkpot18 ( $40.35 )
Seat 2: geauxhome ( $61.05 )
Seat 3: mercenaryman ( $23.6 )
Seat 4: rydewithme ( $46 )
Seat 5: Sixtus33 ( $67.45 )
Seat 6: BlkDragon2 ( $46 )
Seat 7: stressball10 ( $51.15 )
Seat 9: xcoldplayx ( $73.25 )
Seat 10: pebrown430 ( $34.55 )
Seat 8: MarvAA ( $43.9 )
BlkDragon2 posts small blind [$0.5].
stressball10 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Ks Kh ]
MarvAA folds.
xcoldplayx folds.
pebrown430 folds.
stinkpot18 folds.
geauxhome folds.
mercenaryman folds.
rydewithme folds.
Sixtus33 calls [$1].
BlkDragon2 calls [$0.5].
stressball10 raises [$3].
Sixtus33 folds.
BlkDragon2 raises [$14].
stressball10 is all-In [$47.15]
BlkDragon2 is all-In [$31]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Ad, Kd ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
BlkDragon2 shows [ Ac, Ah ] three of a kind, aces.
stressball10 shows [ Ks, Kh ] three of a kind, kings.
stressball10 wins $5.15 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, kings.
BlkDragon2 wins $90 from the main pot with three of a kind, aces.

[LeFou]

Is this the same as the other time you asked this?

[Demiparadigm]

[quote="Phew72"]
For KK also read: AA & AK.

quote]

AK is NOT the same as AA or KK. AK is a drawing hand, and if you get reraised, you should almost always throw it away. Unless you are playing .01/.02 and people will reraise with almost anything, drop and wait until you have a hand that is a favorite. In real no limit the reraise is a big pair, or someone representing a big pair. AK is a dog to ANY pair, and is worthless against AA or KK. you are better off with 72 vs AA than AK.

Raise with AK to win the pot before the flop. If you don't, give up. Wait for a better spot.