Playing Progress

[whileone]

So, I’ve stepped way down in limits. I’ve gone all the way to stars micro 1c/2c NL. There are a few things that I’m learning, that I want write down.

First, there is a whole lot of board texture. I didn’t understand this until a few days ago. I’m starting to see that my set of 2’s is awesome with an AT2 rainbow board. But that same set sucks with an AA2 board. There is a whole lot of subtlety I’m slowly picking up. I think there’s a standard progression of understanding. First, I learned how to play top pair top kicker. Those won small pots fairly often, but sometimes I got nailed by a big hand. After a while I started to pick up suited connectors. I chased way too much, so I stopped playing them. I won a big pot on a bluff, and then I bluffed way too much. I started playing pocket pairs, and have done ok with the “no set no bet” rule, but I think I’m slightly underplaying them. But now, after a few thousand hands, I’m starting to see when to chase, and when to fold. I’m learning how the cards work. There seems to be this steady increase in profitability from weak tight to tight aggressive, but I have to play the hands correctly first. Being to loose or to aggressive leads to disaster. When you’ve only seen 10 nut flushes, you don’t see all of the danger on the board. A2 crub frush isn’t that great with two pair on the board.

Then there’s the other guy. Is his call a chase or a slowplay? What is he raising with? I’m still having a hard time with this. Sometimes, I think I get a read, but mostly I have to play the cards in my hand. Sure, I bluff from time to time, but I’m not optimal. Sometimes I let people chase. I may have a decent hand right now, but could be out drawn. I’ll make a half pot sized bet rather than a pot sized bet because I think I’ll lose, and want to limit my loss. That is, of course, retarded. I’ve got to make people pay to chase.

Then, there’s me. I’ve found myself getting greedy and overplaying hands. Getting jealous of other players cards and not playing right. I’ve been surprised by how much my emotional state affects the quality of my play. I didn’t expect this level of introspection.

Poker is cool, but it’s really hard. You hear people say, this game will take a lifetime to learn. I still don’t believe that, but the amount of time it will take me to get “good” keeps increasing.

I think that there are a few ‘right of passage’ levels of learning. When someone can do integration, they can tackle any math problem. They may fail, but after calculus you can give it a great try. With programming it’s pointers. Once you can use pointers, you’re in great shape to write serious code. Poker doesn’t seem to have that one big lesson quality. I’ve had to learn hundreds of little lessons all along. As far as I can tell, I’ve got thousands of those more to go.

People say you have to play the player, but wtf does that mean? Well, I can repeat that like a parrot, but I don’t think I’ll be able to explain it without a whole lot more play.

Any thoughts? Am I way off track? Been there done that?

[Sed]

People say you have to play the player, but wtf does that mean? Well, I can repeat that like a parrot, but I don’t think I’ll be able to explain it without a whole lot more play.

Watch Rippy, Rada or Soupie play a MTT and you will be enlightened...

- sed

[a500lbgorilla]

When you said 22 is great for a board like AT2 rainbow but not AA2, what did you mean?

Playing the player: obseve the player and their tendancies. Find out when they bet, when they don't and what every action means. Also how the react to bets.

-'rilla

[Sed]

When you said 22 is great for a board like AT2 rainbow but not AA2, what did you mean?

I might agree with a board of AA2KQ against a tight player.
- sed

[TylerK]

When you said 22 is great for a board like AT2 rainbow but not AA2, what did you mean?

I might agree with a board of AA2KQ against a tight player.
- sed

Yeah, I'd say a flop of AA2 when you hold 22 is just about perfect. If someone is lucky enough to have AA, A2, or to pair their kicker on the next 2 streets, well, they're going to win a real big pot from me, as Doyle would say.

[a500lbgorilla]

When you said 22 is great for a board like AT2 rainbow but not AA2, what did you mean?

I might agree with a board of AA2KQ against a tight player.
- sed

Yeah, I'd say a flop of AA2 when you hold 22 is just about perfect. If someone is lucky enough to have AA, A2, or to pair their kicker on the next 2 streets, well, they're going to win a real big pot from me, as Doyle would say.

*taps his nose* Whereas it might be harder to get action when the board is AT2.

-'rilla

[whileone]

When you said 22 is great for a board like AT2 rainbow but not AA2, what did you mean?

i thought i meant that the set of aces would have you beat. Now i realize it's one of two things. 1. I'm retarded and keep folding full houses, or 2. I suck at making examples where a set of 2's is a looser.

Playing the player: obseve the player and their tendancies. Find out when they bet, when they don't and what every action means. Also how the react to bets.

Oh! it's all so clear now.
I meant that's easier said than done. There's a whole lot of skill there that i haven't even started thinking about.

[a500lbgorilla]

Just take notes on player tendancies. What hands the raise/call with preflop. What hands they'll bet with on the flop. How they react.

You've just got to make observations so that you can make future assumptions about their hand/their reactions.

-'rilla

[Cocco_Bill]

A flop of AA2 is preferred to AT2 if I hold 22 simply because i cant get beat by a flush or a straight and anyone possibly holding an ace will pay me off good probably their whole stack.

When you said 22 is great for a board like AT2 rainbow but not AA2, what did you mean?

Playing the player: obseve the player and their tendancies. Find out when they bet, when they don't and what every action means. Also how the react to bets.

-'rilla

Well what I think he means is that most tight players usually play hands like AK and AQs and many looser players even like to play any ace. So when the board comes AT2 he is very sure that unless he's facing pocket aces he has the best hand, AND he is likely to get paid off by a pair of aces. That means that's he's beat a small percentage of time, and a big winner a bigger percentage of time. Of course, when no one has anything he picks up the pot right there.

When you see AA2 and you're holding the ducks, if your opponent played a marginal hand like A4, you'd still be in a world of hurt. You have one out to beat him with quads, and that is one out, with two cards to go: about 2% chance to win
Also, it scares people away. Not only no one can make a straight draw expect for people playing 3-4 or 3-5 (automatic folding hands) so you won't get paid off for straights or flushes unless A and 2 are the same suit.

So you expect to win just as many small pots with that hand, lose a big ones MORE often and never actually win a medium pot unless someone just happens to have a 2 in their hand.

So while AA2 with a pair of twos is probably still profitable over the long run, AT2 is much more so.

[Fnord]

On an AA2 board Ax has outs.
On an AT2 board Ax is probably drawing to runners.

Either way I can't get my chips into the pot fast enough.

[a500lbgorilla]

On AA2 they'll be putting their chips in too. On AT2, your Axs might not be so ready, willing and able to go allin vrs the other board.

-'rilla

[TylerK]

I just need to point this out, because some people are severely missing a basic point of the rules of holdem.

If the board is:
AA2

and you hold:
22

and your opponent holds:
AK

YOU have the leading hand. You have 2's full of aces. He has three of a kind aces. He is drawing to 4 outs (1 ace, 3 kings).

Sorry if I misinterpreted anyone's posts, but it seems like people are saying that any A beats 22 on this board.

oh whoops
then I change my mind
AA2 is indeed better