WHAT DO I DO NOW?help...~

[BILLABONG]

Ok,im sitting at a $1-$2 no limit texas hold em table. Im in middle position with KK. Two callers limp before me. I raise to 8 dollars,everyone behind me folds,blinds fold, the one limper before me folds and the other limper just calls. Heres where the problem comes in. First this player JUST SAT DOWN,I have no read on him. Second the flop comes 4 of hearts, 6 of clubs, and a jack of clubs.With pot at about $23 dollars now.I bet 15 dollars so if hes goin to chase it more then likely kills his pot odds. However he calls anyway and the turn is a 8 of clubs.The pot is now roughy $53 dollars. He checks and I bet $30 dollars. Now he not only calls my $30 but also Re-raises me to $50 dollars. And with absolutely no read on him now that the 8 of clubs came up made me kinda worried he either hit his flush or made a straight. It cost me $50 bux into a pot of $163 dollars on the turn overall with me in late position. I folded. What should I have done better with no read? Bet more, bet less, checked ? Im lost. Was this jsut a case of somone outdrawing me and I simply having to pay them off? Was he bluffing? If so, how was I to know he was bluffing since I had no read on him? PLEASE HELP

[LeFou]

he not only calls my $30 but also Re-raises me to $50 dollars...It cost me $50 bux into a pot of $163 dollars on the turn overall with me in late position. I folded. What should I have done better with no read? Bet more, bet less, checked ? Im lost. Was this jsut a case of somone outdrawing me and I simply having to pay them off? Was he bluffing? If so, how was I to know he was bluffing since I had no read on him? PLEASE HELP

Sounds like good play from both of you. A bigger bet on the flop would have taken away drawing odds more decisively, but of course when you yank someone's odds you want them to call. And miss the draw.

He's not likely to be raising that big on the turn without something that can beat 2 kings. Just my first feeling.

[kidpoker22]

You really didn't "kill" his odds for calling. Maybe he was only getting like 2.6:1 to call which isn't neccesarily the right price for calling the flop, but he did have implied odds for the call. Implied odds are a much bigger factor in NL than in limit. I don't know if that player would call to draw a scare card or not, but I think your laydown, given your line on that player was good.

[jokerindapack]

I'd say it's a good laydown as well, he also could've been slow-playing trip J's as another hand I would put him on as well as a possible flush. A straight doesn't seem as likely but then again you have no read on the guy so you can't completly rule it out.

The only thing I might have done different with the K's is to bet more like 6-8 x BB (in other words $12-$16 to go) pre-flop, because anyone w/ a A-9 or lower are more than likely to just fold out. I mean it would be worse if say you made the same bet w/ the one caller and the flop came down 4h-6c-Ac and that guy is holding like a A/7o. Like you said you don't have a read on the guy but a bet that big would at least give you a clue and get most people to fold those babysitter hands...maybe or maybe not I could be wrong too.