6 max NLHE: Marginal hand play pre-flop questions.

[DrNoChance]

Perhaps I'm not adjusting properly to 6 max with my marginal hands.

When do you fold/raise/limp pre-flop (what position, limpers vs. no limpers in) with things like:

AJo
ATo/s
KQs/o
KJs/o
KTs/o
QJs/o
QTs/o

I'm concerned I may be limping too much instead of raising and giving the blinds too many free flops. On the other hand, I have little use for the offsuit version of these hands at a full ring table so it feels hard enough bringing myself to limp with these hands sometimes let alone raise.

As I've stated before, I'm in a definite ring game slump playing 6 handed NLHE, so I'm looking to plug any pre-flop leaks and I'll take it from there.

Any comments are appreciated.

[johnnyawe]

AJo
ATo/s
KQs/o
KJs/o

I will raise these and I'm willing to show down with them if I hit top pair.

KTs/o
QJs/o
QTs/o

These I will probably try to limp in with. If someone is showing a lot of strength when I catch a flop, then I have to think about laying them down. TQo might even be a preflop fold, and TQs too. Flushes don't mean very much to me in the 6-max NL game. People play agressively and you almost never have the pot odds to call with a flush draw.

[DrNoChance]

AJo
ATo/s
KQs/o
KJs/o

I will raise these and I'm willing to show down with them if I hit top pair.

From any position as well? Will you raise them UTG or just limp?

[michael1123]

AJo
ATo/s
KQs/o

Raise them all from any position if I'm opening or there's only a limper or two behind me. Call a modest raise with them.

KJs/o
KTs/o
QJs/o
QTs/o

Limp in most positions. KJs and maybe others depending on the table would be raises if I'm opening on the button. I'd be pretty selective in calling big raises with those hands, but a modest raise (3x BB) and a lot of callers in front of me, and I'm definitely calling.

I'm concerned I may be limping too much instead of raising and giving the blinds too many free flops. On the other hand, I have little use for the offsuit version of these hands at a full ring table so it feels hard enough bringing myself to limp with these hands sometimes let alone raise.

Woah, sounds like you're being way too passive for a 6 max game, which involves a lot of aggression. This is from a long while ago (and is only available to premium members), but Fnord wrote a very useful post about 6 max NL play. Sounds like you need it: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=1152

[DrNoChance]

Actually, after looking at that post (which was quite useful), I'm not way off in my pre-flop play (for 6 max). I'm limping a little bit too much, but not a ton.

I am struggling with the right amount of post-flop aggression in raised pots when I have position but miss the flop and it's checked to me. In a SnG that's often a steal attempt, but these bloody calling stations that I run into just drive me nuts. They call with 2 overs, they call with ace high, etc. I need to adjust better and value bet them to death rather than using ill-advised aggression. I need to watch out for people who can't fold a hand.

[DrNoChance]

Bah, it's mercifully over now anyways. The last of my $200 deposit + bonus at RV is gone, and I'll be returning to PokerSharks to try to rebuild my bankroll with SnGs. Gee, trying to bonus whore was just a swell idea

I've seen quads more times in the last 2 weeks than the rest of my poker career....in other people's hands, of course. I've ran into the pure nuts over and over and over again. I've made some loose calls, some due to tilt, some because I've seen people raising with absolute crap and felt I had odds to call. I've just finished playing with some of the worst players I've ever seen, and they have taken most of my money.

Remember the time Rippy went on his rant against Paradise Poker after he suffered beat after beat after beat? I now know what that kind of poker pain feels like.

Anyways, thanks for the advice everyone. If I ever feel like trying out 6 max NLHE bonus whoring again, I'll let you all know how it goes.

[DrNoChance]

Just for laughs, here's the hand that forever ended my days at Royal Vegas.

I'm down to my last $22 or so, having just ran into unlikely quads yet again. I can just feel the end is near. I'm dealt JJ on the button. Everybody and their dog limps in. I raise 4xBB (not enough for that many limpers) and of course everybody and their dog calls it. Great.

Flop: 6 8 10, two to a suit. Nice, no overs at least.

BB fires off a weak bet, and everybody calls it (not a suprise on this table) and the CO raises it a decent amount. Fine, it's more likely to be KT or AT (they'd call pre-flop with those) or 99 than a set or a limped monster overpair. I push all-in since just about any raise pot commits me and I don't want people drawing at me anyways. I'll just take it down right here. Ummm...folded to the guy just in front of the CO who then pushes all-in himself. Great, I'm toast. It's a set for sure. Oh well, I can deal with that....that's poker.

He flips over 79o. 7 freakin' 9 freakin' offsuit.

And that hand, ladies and gentlemen, just about sums up my experience at Royal Vegas.

[johnnyawe]

Sorry man, 6-max is swingy. It looks like you have been playing it right and just ran into some bad luck. I hope you'll give it another go in the future.

[twosevoff]

Woah, sounds like you're being way too passive for a 6 max game, which involves a lot of aggression. This is from a long while ago (and is only available to premium members), but Fnord wrote a very useful post about 6 max NL play. Sounds like you need it: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=1152

Any way someone could put up that Fnord post so non-premium members can read it? I would be very interested in looking at it...

[JB]

I've been playing a lot of 5 handed NL tables lately on Pokerroom (usually play 10 handed). There is definitely a sizeable difference in play of hands as well as overall style of play.

I also see a large difference in the swings you take. At first playing 5 handed seemed great, in less than a week more than doubled my BR. Had some of my best days ever. Well everything seemed fine and I made a deposit down to my usual BR amount. Now after some crazy beats and some poor play on my part (think I went on tilt for a little while), I've lost about $2500. Actually dropping down a level or two now just because I don't want to reload.

So, while I definitely see the merits and potential quick money that can be made from short handed games, I've also experienced the down side of it. Once I build my BR back up and get back to playing my usual limits, I'm back to 10 handed ring.

May not be quite as quick or exciting but its produced steady, long-term results for me.