[5NL] KK...should I be betting this flop?

[Cobra_1878]

Villain was 26/16/5 (3bet) through 74 hands. Fold to cbet, 50%, 2/4.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $4.00
UTG: $5.00
MP: $11.41
Hero (CO): $7.52
BTN: $10.04
SB: $3.40

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has K K

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN raises to $0.45, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.05, BTN calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.17, 2 players) 8 A J
Hero bets $1.55

Should I be leading out on this flop? I was trying to think of hands that I beat in villain's 3bet/4bet calling range. All I could think of was QQ & TT. KQs maybe, although KsQs calls I feel. AJ+ has me crushed, JJ has me crushed, obv AA had me crushed pre.

On the other hand, by checking, am I playing my hand face up? Allowing villain to bluff me if he thinks the A has scared me?

Thoughts on correct play?

[Savy]

Don't think villain will bluff you very often, loads good aces in your range.

Work it out as a semi bluff. Assuming that you win if he folds. You lose if he calls or raises. Never putting any money in the pot.

Won't be exact obviously, but gives you a rough idea.

[Cobra_1878]

Don't think villain will bluff you very often, loads good aces in your range.

Work it out as a semi bluff. Assuming that you win if he folds. You lose if he calls or raises. Never putting any money in the pot.

Won't be exact obviously, but gives you a rough idea.

Loads of good aces in my range that I would check this flop with?

[Savy]

Loads of good aces in my range that I would check this flop with?

I was assuming that if you check you are giving up in the hand. pretty much all of his range is beating you bar QQ.

[rpm]

meh i probably C/F here

[daviddem]

Yeah, it is OK to check fold without further reads, and it is also OK to sometimes check call or check raise hands like AA or AxKs for some balance.

And if you're going to cbet in a 4b pot, half pot is more than enough (if you half pot every street, you will be all in by the river).

If you have a read that this guy is capable of 3b/calling pre with suited connectors or 22-TT, and then bluff the flop when checked to, then the case for cbetting becomes much stronger because it is going to make the hand much easier to play. Yes you would fold all his worse hands and he would continue with all his better hands, but it prevents you making much bigger mistakes when you check and he bets.

[griffey24]

If you had AK/AA/JJ would you really be betting this big on the flop?

I would bet 0.70-0.90 with my entire range.

[daviddem]

If you had AK/AA/JJ would you really be betting this big on the flop?

I would bet 0.70-0.90 with my entire range.

I think yes with 100bb stacks, but with 150bb stacks I'd make it 0.9 to 1.05.

[MadMojoMonkey]

@zhenbino45:If you're only here for the freerolls, then please don't clutter up poker threads with unrelated babble. That's what the commune is for. Thanks for playing.

@ mods: I don't mind if people want to gain access to freerolls by becoming a member, but it annoys me when they are unwilling to even participate in the thread to get their post count.

[Keith]

I think the post he made before the hello and bye indicates he is just a spammer that has his spamming software set up incorrectly.

[surviva316]

Am I being nitty if I want to 4b larger pre. Giving him a 0.60 call when he stands to win 7.97 seems to be cutting it a bit close.

Anyway, I like b/f'ing flop. It's kinda between a bluff and value bet; it just makes your hand and range tougher to play against and induces more mistakes. So often, people post hands where they check in spots like these, and then on a later street in the hand they're like "Now what the fuck do I do?!?!" and everyone in the thread is confusing themselves thinking on like the 10th level and shit. This is because you're putting yourself in a position to make mistakes when you cap your range instead of putting villain in a position to make mistakes when you keep your range strong and wide.

Anyway, if you're going to bet big, this is the perfect amount. I would bet 0.90 here, though. First and foremost, I think it's a better sizing with this hand in a vacuum. Then, I think I would bet 0.90 with my whole range here anyway. This is a good spot to bet/shove your nut hands (or 0.90 -> 1.80 -> shove [~3.80]), and I would probably extract a couple of small streets of value with AK.

[Stacks]

@zhenbino45:If you're only here for the freerolls, then please don't clutter up poker threads with unrelated babble. That's what the commune is for. Thanks for playing.

@ mods: I don't mind if people want to gain access to freerolls by becoming a member, but it annoys me when they are unwilling to even participate in the thread to get their post count.

Posts deleted and he's banned. If at any time you see something like that, with a poster blatantly trying to gain freeroll access without so much as even trying to contribute, report the post/thread, and I'll take care of it.

[Malbrack]

Anyway, I like b/f'ing flop. It's kinda between a bluff and value bet; it just makes your hand and range tougher to play against and induces more mistakes. So often, people post hands where they check in spots like these, and then on a later street in the hand they're like "Now what the fuck do I do?!?!" and everyone in the thread is confusing themselves thinking on like the 10th level and shit. This is because you're putting yourself in a position to make mistakes when you cap your range instead of putting villain in a position to make mistakes when you keep your range strong and wide.

You're mostly expecting better hands to call and worse hands to fold, but you're betting to get the villain to fold his share of equity? So basically a cbet? Are there enough hand combos in his range that would fold to a bet to make a cbet profitable?

I kind of suck at thinking about ranges, but could we say that he would flat a 4b with something like { QQ-99,AJs+,KQs,AQo+ } (or 54 hand combos after taking blockers into account)? He calls a flop bet with { QQ-JJ, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ } (42 combos) and folds { TT-99 } (12 combos). With a cbet of $1.55, then you need villain to fold around 42% of the time, but if these ranges are correct, villain is only folding around 22% of the time. Or do you think he would flat more pocket pairs and suited connectors?

When you say you b/f to induce mistakes, what mistakes are you expecting in this particular situation? Aren't you making it easier on the villain too by encouraging him to fold most stuff you beat and to call with most stuff you don't? And if he calls the flop, do you c/f turn unless its a king or a spade?

[daviddem]

Am I being nitty if I want to 4b larger pre. Giving him a 0.60 call when he stands to win 7.97 seems to be cutting it a bit close.

Anyway, I like b/f'ing flop. It's kinda between a bluff and value bet; it just makes your hand and range tougher to play against and induces more mistakes. So often, people post hands where they check in spots like these, and then on a later street in the hand they're like "Now what the fuck do I do?!?!" and everyone in the thread is confusing themselves thinking on like the 10th level and shit. This is because you're putting yourself in a position to make mistakes when you cap your range instead of putting villain in a position to make mistakes when you keep your range strong and wide.

Anyway, if you're going to bet big, this is the perfect amount. I would bet 0.90 here, though. First and foremost, I think it's a better sizing with this hand in a vacuum. Then, I think I would bet 0.90 with my whole range here anyway. This is a good spot to bet/shove your nut hands (or 0.90 -> 1.80 -> shove [~3.80]), and I would probably extract a couple of small streets of value with AK.

idk it's more like neither a bluff or a value bet.

When you have AK or AA here and you bet, you expect a fold most of the time except the few times villain also has an A. So I prefer checking my underpairs along with some of my AA AK combos (AxKs comes to mind because you are blocking flush draws a lot).

As I said in previous post, if this villain is capable of flatting the 4b with SC's or low/mid pairs and turn them into a bluff when checked to, then cbetting becomes much more of an option because of the large mistakes you could be making when you check and he bets.

Agree with 4betting bigger oop, maybe $1.25-$1.35 or so. OP's sizing would be fine IP.