Pre flop strategy

[OngBonga]

I feel I have a strong pre flop edge over the average player at 2nl, but I still find myself not really sure what I should do in certain spots. So I'm gonna post some hands where this situation arises, and encourage others to post hands they might be unsure of. Discussion can only help to improve pre flop strategy.

Hand 1 - KQo in position vs ep open from unknown villain...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($1.98)
MP1 ($5.42)
MP2 ($2.11)
MP3 ($4.22)
Hero (CO) ($7.17)
Button ($3.32)
SB ($1.85)
BB ($5.28)
UTG ($5.03)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, K
1 fold, UTG+1 bets $0.06, 3 folds, Hero ???

I feel this is a standard fold vs unknown, but we have a decent hand in position, so maybe calling is ok here?

Hand 2 - 77 on bb vs limp frenzy

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($1.54)
CO ($1.52)
Button ($0.80)
SB ($1.03)
Hero (BB) ($5)
UTG ($2.27)
UTG+1 ($1.31)
MP1 ($3.48)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 7
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero ???

Take a flop and setmine them to hell or raise and iso? I check this spot, but I can see merit in raising a reasonably large amount, say 0.12, to iso high cards and shittier pairs, or take down the dead moneys.

Hand 3 - JTo on BU vs spewy limpmonkey

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($1.48)
MP2 ($0.80)
CO ($1.02)
Hero (Button) ($5)
SB ($1.48)
BB ($2.27)
UTG ($1.29)
UTG+1 ($3.63)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10, J
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Hero ???

Iso the fish, limp or fold? I chose to limp this spot behind, half decent hand with button, isn't afraid to play a flop multi-way so I don't mind if the blinds are in.

I'll leave it at three for now to avoid overload.

Lots of pre flop situations seem standard to me, but others not so. Pre flop shold be the easiest street to play correctly, so these non-standard spots, well I want them to be standard.

Bear in mind I have no HUD right now, so those left to act, I can't give you info on those for these spots, buts what factors would play a role in the decision? I have my own ideas here of course, but I'll leave some scope for discussion.

[kmind]

I fold hand 1 preflop but I don't really know how the average 2NLer plays...or even if there is an "average". Some things you want to look at is how tight they are. If they're tight and we have 100bb stacks I'm pretty much just playing a tighter range than what they play assuming we don't get paid with sets often.

Hand 2 I would raise it up pretty high to get less callers, value, and take down the dead money preflop or flop.

Hand 3 I raise almost always. Fold to limp/raise plus fold to flop notes are important here. I have a post in my blog with a bunch of numbers that would be relevant here: http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...9-post292.html

[rpm]

hand 1 i fold but could perhaps make a case for calling KQs

hand 2 check. raising will generally just bloat a pot with a hand which will provide next to no postflop playability on 9/10 of boards and you will be OOP. quite often multiway as well (if the first guy calls, well it all snowballs from there)

edit: for further clarification on this point: this is a hand which does not flop well. it is not a high enough pair to feel comfortable getting more than 2 streets of value on 90% of boards, and it will almost never flop you draws that you can play aggressively and leverage your FE to make it +EV. think of how many flops you hate and will have to play OOP when you raise here. imo you'd be better off raising a hand like A3s (though i think check>raise for BOTH 77 and A3s, but for examples sake)

hand 3 i'd never limp. it's between raise and fold for me and i raise this 100% expecting to have a million +EV CB opportunities on the flop. i cant think of a good reason to limp behind. but then again i run something in the vicinity 31/28 so limping preflop isn't much a part of my strategy, which it probably could and should be.

now i got that out of the way i get to look at what kmind had to say

[rpm]

ps playing without a hud is the nuts. pity i cant do it with more than 2 tables running without becoming a bot

[daven]

my defaults here without reads:
KQo - 3b or fold (80-20ish, depends what has been happening at the table)
77 - check, not close cos schooling = 1 call -> many calls -> oop, multiway, 77. Also, i don't think you want to iso high cards here oop
TJo, meh, raise to 5c or something cos the button hu vs an ep limper is probably profitable here. Fold this hand from HJ in this spot

now to see what others think...

[Cobra_1878]

Hand 1 - Fold. Not comfortable playing against an unknown UTG raise, with KQo. Could easily be dominated.

Hand 2 - Check. Raising bloats a pot, especially as so many 2NL players limp/call ( hardly ever taking into account bet size ) we are OOP with a hand that is hardly ever going to play post-flop well unless we flop a set.

Hand 3 - Fold. It's a fold for me as I feel JTo is a hand that can get you into a lot of trouble, you would probably be able to play it much better than me though. Plenty of 2NL'ers will limp in EP with JT/QT/KT/QJ/KJ. Majority of the time I feel we would be dominated so an easy fold for me.

[Icanhastreebet]

Agree w/ rpm's post. If you are playing KQo in these positions it should almost always be for a 3b versus either really loose fishy player or someone who gives a lot of credit to 3bs when they raise in EP. Coldcall is also good if they are really loose and like to c/f a tonne or if there's some big fish in the sb/bb etc. Just use your head before you automatically do things.

[OngBonga]

Thanks guys, some interesting points here.

The KQo hand, 3b'ing doesn't even get serious consideration from me tbh, not vs unknown at 2nl. If I have KQs, well I'm not folding to x3 open, so 3b'ing and call are my options, probably call.

77, I check for the very points rpm makes... it did take me a long time to realise just how badly these shitty pairs play post flop oop, it was probably my one session with bikes that really nailed it into me. Utg I'm raising 77 but folding 66, but I always wonder if I should up my opening range utg to 88+ and throw away 77. But as kmind points out, there's value vs some of these guys limping, and if we can iso, say 66 and AJ, well we're favourite because we take it down with flop cbet more often than not. So I wasn't sure about this spot. I'll continue to check this spot, obv if we hit a set there's a really good chance someone else likes the flop, so to me the implied odds of checking heavily outweigh the thin value to be found from raising.

The JTo hand, I don't limp behind very often at all, and sure if I'm CO I just fold this and don't look back, but with BU vs a spewy limpfish, I saw value in limping. As it turned out this hand, I flopped tp+oesd, and he b/c flop and c/c turn before he gave up. I guess he had something like AT or w/e. Maybe I lose value in this spot by not raising pre, but I'm not sure all that many worse hands are l/c'ing pre, compared to better hands, hence my limp. This one was a real dilemma.

Away from poker now for the next couple of days, if anyone else wants to post pre flop spots for discussion, feel free.

[OngBonga]

Just use your head before you automatically do things.

Summed up perfectly.

[postiga]

Hand 1 - Call
Hand 2 - Check
Hand 3 - Raise and play in position or fold