Jacks On Da Button....

[WeldPhaser]

I have 400 hands on Villain, 46/26 call PFR: 28, He 3bets super marginal, QJ,KT,SC's 77+, especially in blinds....

previous orbit I ra' the BU w/ AK he flatted , i checked QJ3 board,he checked Turn bricked I bet 2/3, he c/r'd me I folded.

He likes to shove the flop or turn w/ TPTK sets , so I feel like his pot bets are weak....

I shove to represent a bluff, Is that right here?


Revolution Gaming Network - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $2.00
SB: $5.55
BB: $1.82
UTG: $5.52
MP: $1.33
CO: $2.41

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J J

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, fold, BB calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.26, 2 players) 3 9 2
BB bets $0.26, Hero calls $0.26

Turn: ($0.78, 2 players) 5
BB bets $0.39, Hero raises to $1.62 and is all-in, ???

[bjsaust]

First your previous orbit hand. If you didn't cbet on the QJ3 flop and the turn bricked, exactly why would you bet then?

On your hand, turn doesn't make a lot of sense, but you've got some weird stack ratio going on. Is this a short buyin table or something? I don't hate it. Probably would have just raised the flop instead. I think I've said this before, but you seem to want to do fancy stuff just to be fancy. Its 4NL, if you think you have the best hand, just bet and raise.

[maverick007]

I would have raised it to 0.16 pre flop. Re-raised flop to 0.60 and slow down if he showed aggression.

[WeldPhaser]

First your previous orbit hand. If you didn't cbet on the QJ3 flop and the turn bricked, exactly why would you bet then?

Cause this guy usually bets any piece, so I thought I tried to take it down on the turn.....

I'm not sure if fancy would be a description, sloppy maybe... I know this guy can't bet any made hand thin.... He's getting it in w Mid-pair most of the time on the fl'... he turned over j3o here so I read it ok i guess...

[Imthenewfish]

I would have raised it to 0.16 pre flop. Re-raised flop to 0.60 and slow down if he showed aggression.

No..

[bjsaust]

Cause this guy usually bets any piece, so I thought I tried to take it down on the turn.....

I'm not sure if fancy would be a description, sloppy maybe... I know this guy can't bet any made hand thin.... He's getting it in w Mid-pair most of the time on the fl'... he turned over j3o here so I read it ok i guess...

I'm not sure if you read that before posting, but what you said makes no sense. I'm pretty sure you contradict yourself at least 3 times and come to the wrong conclusion for every part of it.

The point is, stop thinking 1th level and think 2th level. What possible hands are in your range that you check back that flop with, bet a blank turn with, and can call a raise? This guy is obviously having trouble concentrating because of all the drool he's getting on his keyboard, but if he was paying attention he could pretty much make that play with his entire range without looking at his cards the way you played it.

[maverick007]

No..

Could you elaborate the wrong line of thinking here, please?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Cause this guy usually bets any piece, so I thought I tried to take it down on the turn.....

Why would you want to "take it down on the turn"?
Why would you want to stop Villain from betting when you're ahead and they're shoveling it to you?
With what losing hands do you expect Villain to call your raise?
What winning hands could they fold?

[Imthenewfish]

Could you elaborate the wrong line of thinking here, please?

the sizing makes no sense to me and if you raise flop you're playing for stacks

[ColdDecked]

I'd probably raise and get it in on the flop, especially if he's going to be shoving tptk.

[OngBonga]

Raise flop, play for stacks.

[!Luck]

plz list hands that he stacks off on the flop with.....

[bikes]

46/26
raise the flop. get it in.

[OngBonga]

plz list hands that he stacks off on the flop with.....

I dunno, I'm not a 46/26 donk. He isn't folding tens, he probably doesn't fold 88, jeez he probably stacks overcards happily. This guy is aggro. Give him a raise button on flop, take it from there.

[!Luck]

TT+,Sets,54,A5s on flop. I don't think you want to stack off on flop.

[ColdDecked]

I'd discount TT+, since villain 3bets a ton. Villain could be raising with 9x hands that are raising because they're scared to see a bad turn, then getting it in because they have TP. Fish are gonna be fish. Should be assigning villain a looser range given that he's aggro and probably just clicking buttons.

Notes says he is willing to ship TPTK. Not sure why we don't want to raise, get it in and be happy about getting sick value.

[OngBonga]

TT+,Sets,54,A5s on flop. I don't think you want to stack off on flop.

Well you can go right ahead and add in A4s too if he has A5s. Throw in some 9x and smaller pocket pairs and I'm drooling. QQ+ not in his range very often, TT is questionable too.

[eugmac]

I agree he's stacking off with 9x. Get it in before bad turns/rivers can kill the action.

[surviva316]

In the AK hand, check turn too if you're not gonna bet flop. If you bet the turn in that hand as a bluff, that's REALLY BAD because you had the top of your range. I certainly wouldn't b/f because you had the top of your range. If guy's really bluffy, then just check back turn and call river.

I think I like flatting flop because we can prolly call 3 streets, even if an A hits the turn against this player, so boards don't get much safer than this and you want to give this type of player the chances to slit his own wrists at every juncture you can get. I prolly CiB turn and let him do something crazy with Ax and value hands we have beat. That leaves the perfect amount behind to shove any river that isn't an A or a 4. (MAYBE check back K/Q river, but without doing any maths, I think we still shove on those for value).

WTF is this talk of shoving turn as a bluff?

[WeldPhaser]

In the AK hand, check turn too if you're not gonna bet flop. If you bet the turn in that hand as a bluff, that's REALLY BAD because you had the top of your range. I certainly wouldn't b/f because you had the top of your range. If guy's really bluffy, then just check back turn and call river.

I think I like flatting flop because we can prolly call 3 streets, even if an A hits the turn against this player, so boards don't get much safer than this and you want to give this type of player the chances to slit his own wrists at every juncture you can get. I prolly CiB turn and let him do something crazy with Ax and value hands we have beat. That leaves the perfect amount behind to shove any river that isn't an A or a 4. (MAYBE check back K/Q river, but without doing any maths, I think we still shove on those for value).

WTF is this talk of shoving turn as a bluff?

On the Ak thought, I understand when you put it that way... checking turn, I'm still learning how different lines can change things so drastically

[JayneCobbsHat]

I think I'd prefer calling here to let him fire again but I don't hate raising either as you can probably get value from a lot that might shut down on blank rivers like 34,54 or back door flush draws.
I like the line surviva suggests of min raising the turn and hopefully inducing some spazz shoves from a weak range.