88 Spot

[The Bean Counter]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 11 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (9 handed)

BB (t1775)
UTG (t3923)
UTG+1 (t3452)
MP1 (t3875)
MP2 (t3849)
Hero (MP3) (t2005)
CO (t3655)
BTN (t8028)
Villain (t5755)

Hero's M: 26.73

Villain: posts small blind 25
BB: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [8h 8d]
UTG: calls 50
UTG+1: folds
MP1: calls 50
MP2: folds
Hero: raises 150 to 200
CO: folds
BTN: folds
Villain: calls 175
BB: folds
UTG: calls 150
MP1: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [5c 3h Th]
Villain: checks
UTG: checks
MP1: checks
Hero: bets 450
Villain: calls 450
UTG: folds
MP1: folds
*** TURN *** [5c 3h Th] [4d]
Villain: checks


Hi all. Apologies if this is a beginner question but this is a spot I often find myself in when playing MTTs. For reference, the table seems passive in the orbit I've been playing, I have no reads on the villain and the flop bet was snap-called; what should I do here?

[Chusko]

I say b/f. This smells like a flush draw, JT, slowplayed set or someone who cant lay overcards down. Make the suckouts pay and respect a c/r.

[Chusko]

Oy... just realized your stack is ~pot. I don't know what the best play is here.

[Sykedupp]

As played, I check back and usually fold to a river bet unless it's a black (under T and not a heart). Vs some villians I'm willing to call my stack but unless you have those reads its safer to assume you're beat most of the time if villian bets river.

Also, I'm not opposed to limping behind preflop and playing 88 strictly for set value in this spot, with 2 limpers ahead of you.

[donkbee]

I definitely like limp preflop unless you really think you can get HU, preferably in position. Usually you can't here, so just limp.

[donkbee]

someone who cant lay overcards down

you make this sound like it's a bad thing!

[Chusko]

you make this sound like it's a bad thing!

Not at all. Just saying if they want to play that way, make them pay for it.

[TLR]

Ugly spot, I think I prefer a preflop limp to raise.
On the flop I am not sure I am c-betting here vs 3 opponents even if they all checked

[The Bean Counter]

With 30% of the stack I started the hand with and one pot-sized bet behind, it certainly was an ugly spot. Every situation is different of course and I'd normally limp pre here, but felt it was a good opportunity to start to take control at a passive table (probably a bad idea!).

The ten often hits one of them of course, as well as baby sets and flush draws, and I was willing to fold to a lead or c/r. The timing of the checks however screamed weakness and I felt confident it was a pretty good flop for my hand and a good spot to c-bet and rep an overpair (and not give the flush draw a free card).

Just a quick question: if I was the villain holding a flush draw, or two overs with no heart or a hand like a-5 and the turn gets checked behind, would you assume I had two high cards and missed and therefore lead almost any river given the relative stacks and pot size (and therefore get me to fold the best hand)?

[donkbee]

As played, I probably jam the turn.

[donkbee]

Just a quick question: if I was the villain holding a flush draw, or two overs with no heart or a hand like a-5 and the turn gets checked behind, would you assume I had two high cards and missed and therefore lead almost any river given the relative stacks and pot size (and therefore get me to fold the best hand)?

For the villain, betting any hand without show down value and check/calling anything with show down value sounds decent.

If hero checks the turn, though, he should call a lot of rivers.

[drmcboy]

I would limp pre, shove turn as played.

the c bet is close, which is why I would limp pre, because you got a pretty great flop and it is still not clear what to do.

If you really want to raise pre, I'd go much bigger, like 6x, or min raise with a plan to jam over more action.

if I was the villain holding a flush draw,

bombs away on the flop, I'd guess if I somehow got there I'd bet river if it was > J, but it seems unlikely someone who called the flop would decide to bluff the end.

or two overs with no heart

super unlikely with two behind

or a hand like a-5

They probably will try to show it down



All that said, in general I would never assume someone bet this flop with nothing into 3 players. When you check the turn if they are trying they will put you squarely on 66-99. (edit 44 made a set ldo)

[The Bean Counter]

Thanks for the ideas again - they've given me plenty of thoughts and ideas as always. In future, I'll always limp in this situation and give myself the potential to pick up a monster pot against players that can't lay down tptk (or lose a small pot of course).

FWIW on this hand, I jammed turn and villain turned over 5d-6d, which I'd say is an okay call on the turn if he puts me on the overpair I'm trying to rep (or even tptk).