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Thoughts on 3betting in this situation

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  1. #1

    Default Thoughts on 3betting in this situation

    UTG is 8/8, cbet 50%, Agg freq flop 22% and turn 0% and no 3 or 4bet %'s over 59 hands.
    SB is 6/6, Agg freq flop is 25% and turn 33% and no 3 or 4bet %'s over 50 hands.

    My main question is for thoughts on 3betting pre here but any thoughts on how the hand was played would be welcome.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    Button ($3.89)
    SB ($15.08)
    BB ($4.60)
    UTG ($5)
    Hero (UTG+1) ($11.57)
    MP1 ($4.26)
    MP2 ($5.74)
    CO ($4.59)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q, Q
    UTG bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 4 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

    So here's a 8/8 nit raising from UTG. I put him on TT+, AQs+, AK. I'm ahead of most of this range but I wouldn't want to be stacking off with QQ against this guy so if he shoves I'm folding. On the other hand calling would give odds to anyone behind with anything they want to play around with.

    In hindsight I think the better play would have been to 3bet and fold to a shove.

    Anyway, SB calls and I'm putting him on any 22-JJ, AK, AQs+, JTs+. I think he probably would have 3bet here with QQ+ so I discount those.

    Flop: ($1) 8, 5, 5 (3 players)
    SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.70, SB calls $0.70, 1 fold

    No A or K and both check. I think UTG would have bet the flop with an over pair QQ or higher. So I put SB on 99-JJ, AK, AQs, JTs+. I think a c/r is possible from SB with 55 or 88. UTG I put on TT-JJ, AK, AQs+

    I'm betting for value as I have the over pair and I figure it's very unlikely either has 5x. Small chance of 88 from SB

    SB calls so I put him on 99-JJ with the possibility of 55 or 88 slow playing. AK floating the flop is possible but unlikely.

    Turn: ($2.40) 6 (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold

    Total pot: $2.40 | Rake: $0.11

    After SB checks I put him on 99-JJ and AK. With 55 or 88 I think by this stage he'd be wanting to build the pot so would have raised the flop or bet turn. I take a second shot hoping to get paid off with 99-JJ. Because of the possibility of 55 or 88 I'm betting with the intention of folding to a shove and shutting down on the river unless I spike a Q.
  2. #2
    rpm's Avatar
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    hand is played best as is. don't 3bet pre. MAYBE bet a bit smaller on the flop because the board is so dry but i'm not sure that's really worth considering at 10nl.
  3. #3
    ..villains probably fold their entire range to a 3bet except for KK/AA.. which means you extract more value from a wider range by flatting? ..is that your thoughts rpm?
  4. #4
    rpm's Avatar
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    more or less, yeah. basically against guys who aren't spastic and calling 3-bets out of position a heap, i want to be 3-betting a polarised range composed of

    - hands i have determined are +EV to felt to a 4b
    - "bluffs" which come from the top of our folding range and which we can comfortably fold to a 4b

    (note that we don't ALWAYS want to have a 3b bluffing range)

    so in this case, i'm not comfortable felting QQ to a 4b shove. so i think it's most profitable to keep it in our flatting range (thus keeping dominated hands in villain's range and not wasting the value of our hand by having to fold the 3rd preflop nuts when/if he 4bets)
  5. #5
    in situations like this where you're dealing with very narrow ranges its proabably better to just flat with your entire range that proceeds to villains preflop raise.
  6. #6
    Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the thoughts guys.
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    more or less, yeah. basically against guys who aren't spastic and calling 3-bets out of position a heap, i want to be 3-betting a polarised range composed of

    - hands i have determined are +EV to felt to a 4b
    - "bluffs" which come from the top of our folding range and which we can comfortably fold to a 4b
    could you please extrapolate a little on what kind of range that would be?
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