standard preflop 3bet amount for microstakes cash games

[rowhousepd]

What's the standard preflop 3bet amount for microstakes cash games? I know this is a broad question, but I'm just curious about rough a guideline.

Let's just take a basic example when you face one PF raiser: EP open raises 3xbb, everyone folds, LP (hero) holds AKs. The villain is a vanilla reg. Would you base your 3bet size on the % of the pot?

What if there were was a PF raise and someone else who cold calls? Would the bet size change in terms of the % of the pot?

Just looking for a general rule of thumb. Thanks.

[scott_owen]

as per rentons 169 hand guide.. look in the beginners digest.. the 'standard' is 3-4x the initial raise.

so as i understand it, it the bb is 0,10c and villain makes it 30c, your looking to 3bet to 90c-$1.20.

[kmind]

Your example is kind of iffy as some don't 3bet at all in that spot. Anyways, I'd say I don't have a generic size. But, on average, 100bb stacks, probably like 3 times IP and 3.5x OOP. Really depends. I really don't have a generic size with a caller because it really depends who opens and who the caller is. For example, I wouldn't increase it much if both the opener had loosish ranges and folded a lot to 3bets while I would increase it a lot if one of them called a ton and I had a value hand.

[!Luck]

It typically goes something like, 3bb -> 10bb -> 22-28bb (depends on what position you're in, original raiser, stack sizes, etc).

Quoting Roidrage..... Since it is very close to what I do. But how you 3 bet depends on if you have a 3 bet bluff range or not.

!luck

[bigspenda73]

in position against someone who opens wide but continues tight that I'm 3betting a lot - I'd go from 3 to 7.5-8.5
in position against a fish with a value hand - I'd go from 3 to 9-10.5
out of position against a LP opener who has a standard 3bet continuing range - I'd go from 3 - 10.5
out of position against a fish with a value hand I'd go from 3 to 12

[rong]

As somewhat mentioned stack size is super important. Think about ranges and hand planning. Prior to getting involved in any hand you should have an idea of how you intend to proceed on the various board textures, which should include future bet sizes which in itself will relate to preflop raise sizes. There is no one bet size fits all answer.

[daviddem]

For a 3b preflop, assuming everyone in the hand has full 100bb stacks, I'd take a pot sized raise as a baseline, which most of the time will be pretty close to 3x original bet +1x per caller. Or just hit the "pot" button if you have one (Full Tilt has one by default and Stars has presized bet buttons as an option).

Then if you decide to diverge from the baseline, do a little less IP, a little more OOP, a little less vs nits, a little more vs fish, and if you are confident that your opponents will not notice, a little more when you value 3b and a little less when you bluff 3b.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ght=clarifying

More interestingly now, try ang figure out why a pot sized raise is about right most of the time. Think of an example, it's easy. Also figure out why the variations mentioned above make some sense.

[Icanhastreebet]

"it depends"

but seriously if they fold a tonne just 3b small, if they call a tonne 3b large and tighter. If they call a tonne and fold a lot on the flop 3b large and wide.

This is why we go larger OOP(ppl call more) and less IP(ppl call less). There shouldn't be this hey Imma 3x IP or hey Imma 4x cuz I'm OOP. There should be hey Imma 5x IP cause this guy never folds and I'm going to be now be IP w/ a strong hand in a large pot.

[StarGrinder]

Standard (for me) is 3x IP and 4x OOP. Of course that all changes with reads and stack sizes.

[Smith]

Plus add more with each limper/cold caller, right?

[bigspenda73]

I wouldn't in terms of 3betting, especially when in position. When putting in the first raise it's something to consider.

Remember the bigger we 3bet when we're IP the more of our positional advantage we lose.

[Smith]

Ok, then yea sometimes I raise toward the 4x higher side with a cold caller in position.

[rowhousepd]

In the example I was thinking a generic villain who's fully stacked or close to it. I realize shorties requires a different approach. And just to clarify, the only time I'd be out of position is if I was in the blinds ... because I'm basically never limping in, correct?

Also, since I'm playing the micros here, I'm not 3bet bluffing very much, so most of the time I'm looking to get value from someone w/ a weaker hand.

Here's another scenario: What if the villain bets an unusually high bet amount -- let's say 10bb's. Do I still want to put in ~35bb's and risk getting the post flop pot size out of control? Do I want to slow down a bit here? (I know this is very villain-dependent, but I'm trying to figure out my line of thinking here.)

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ght=clarifying

More interestingly now, try and figure out why a pot sized raise is about right most of the time. Think of an example, it's easy. Also figure out why the variations mentioned above make some sense.

Thanks for the link. As to the why's of betting this way, I think I'm understanding it. In general I don't want to risk more $ preflop and exponentially more $ on future streets if a smaller bet get the job done and force someone tight to fold -- that is, unless they are a fish who I'm pretty sure I have crushed, in which case we want him to contribute more w/ a dominated hand he probably won't be able to play well post flop. Is that how we should think about it?

[daviddem]

Thanks for the link. As to the why's of betting this way, I think I'm understanding it. In general I don't want to risk more $ preflop and exponentially more $ on future streets if a smaller bet get the job done and force someone tight to fold -- that is, unless they are a fish who I'm pretty sure I have crushed, in which case we want him to contribute more w/ a dominated hand he probably won't be able to play well post flop. Is that how we should think about it?

One way to think about it is that when you value-raise, you should try and bet as much as you think your opp will call with worse. When you bluff-raise, you should try and bet as little as you think will entice your opp to fold better hands. Of course to perceptive opponents, this quickly becomes transparent.

No, I was more thinking strictly in terms of odds and mistakes. You want your opponent to make a mistake when he calls with a worse hand. So say with QQ you 3b to the pot size, you lay 33.3% pot odds. When your opponent calls with AK, he "makes a mistake" because he has only 29% chance of flopping a pair of better. You should lay odds quite a lot worse than 29% though, to compensate for the times he doesn't have AK but AA or KK and he will 4b and you will loose your 3b.

[rowhousepd]

No, I was more thinking strictly in terms of odds and mistakes. You want your opponent to make a mistake when he calls with a worse hand. So say with QQ you 3b to the pot size, you lay 33.3% pot odds. When your opponent calls with AK, he "makes a mistake" because he has only 29% chance of flopping a pair of better. You should lay odds quite a lot worse than 29% though, to compensate for the times he doesn't have AK but AA or KK and he will 4b and you will loose your 3b.

Gotcha. Read your other post & yes, strictly mathematically it does make sense. Thanks for this description. Seriously.