5nl FR - KK in 4-Bet Pot

[spoonitnow]

Villain is 13/8, 14 ATS, 1/17 = 6% 3b over 48.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($4.13)
MP1 ($1.98)
MP2 ($8.74)
CO ($13.05)
Button ($5.03)
SB ($3.17)
BB ($2.28)
Hero (UTG) ($5.57)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
Hero bets $0.15, 3 folds, CO raises to $0.40, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.15, CO calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.37) J, A, 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($2.37) 2 (2 players)
Hero ...

[Razvan729]

hero c/f.

he's preflop range for 3bet/ call 4bet is JJ,QQ,KK,AK.

never folding AK on a bet, never calling QQ,KK always raise us on JJ . so i'd c/f turn.... but this is what i would do. let's see some better players opinions.

[EasyPoker]

b/f flop

[Razvan729]

bet flop? why? what better folds and what worse calls?!

[EasyPoker]

bet flop? why? what better folds and what worse calls?!

edited

[Razvan729]

JJ-3, QQ-4, KK-1, AK-6.... so 9 that beat us , 4 we beat and 1 we tie.... and we have 1 out vs AK, 2 outs vs JJ.... were the hell is the 50% equity w/ max 2 outs????

[spoonitnow]

we have > 50% equity against his range

Board: Ac Jh 3d
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	49.496%  	48.38% 	01.12% 	         23468 	      542.50   { KcKd }
Hand 1: 	50.504%  	49.39% 	01.12% 	         23957 	      542.50   { 88+, AQs+, AQo+ }

wat.

[EasyPoker]

Yeah sorry I made a mistake in the stove thing

[EasyPoker]

JJ-3, QQ-4, KK-1, AK-6.... so 9 that beat us , 4 we beat and 1 we tie.... and we have 1 out vs AK, 2 outs vs JJ.... were the hell is the 50% equity w/ max 2 outs????

csb

see above

[Icanhastreebet]

agree w/ b/f flop

[Razvan729]

spoon said 13/8 14 ATS... its just 48 hands, but still that doenst seem very positional aware,and its 5nl. 90% of 5nl players flat any PP up to JJ and AQ also. so why suppose he 3bets on UTG and flats a 4bet from UTG with 88+,AQ+ if we have no reads he does that? didnt you spoon said that we have to give credit to a villain until proven otherwise?

[Razvan729]

so someone pls explain to me, cause obv i am too dumb to see, why do we bet here since his calling flop bet range crushes us?

maybe i misunderstood the all concept of poker, but i bet a) to fold better hands then mine and b) get value from worse hands then mine

here in this hand, i cant see how do i accomplish a) or b).. or is there another reason we bet and i cant see?

[daviddem]

He is 13/8, you're UTG, you 4b him, so unless you have a spewy image I can't see him flat a 4b with less than QQ+,AK. I also think that with AK he checks behind on this rather dry flop a non 0% of the time, so he still has some AK in his range on the turn. Besides, it is also doubtful whether he calls a turn bet with QQ. Don't think you get 50% equity here vs his turn calling range, so don't bet, and you can't really call a bet either for the same reasons: he has some AK in his range and doesn't always bet QQ.

So I'd c/f unless he makes it really small.

[rpm]

i agree with checking flop because betting seems to just be value-towning ourself, and we may be able to get some value on the turn or river from hands like TT,QQ if we check the flop. can anyone who thinks bet/folding the flop here is better than checking describe why they think that? i'd be interested to know as it seems a clear check to me (i am by no means saying i am right). as played i think i C/F the turn because i doubt he will try to turn TT-KK into a bluff on this board and will be looking to take them to showdown (thus we can safely fold to a bet). if he checks the turn back i'm betting something like $1.10 on most river cards because i think him checking back twice skews his range towards pocket pairs and away from Ax. and we have sufficiently under-repped our hand to get sigh-calls from QQ and etc.

[daviddem]

+1

I am also interested to understand why Mr. yAAwn is promoting b/f flop?

[Icanhastreebet]

oh didn't even realize this was a 4b pot ldo. b/f is still probably the best regardless unless we know he's checking back QQ/TT and betting all his Ax/JJ.

[Razvan729]

oh didn't even realize this was a 4b pot ldo. b/f is still probably the best regardless unless we know he's checking back QQ/TT and betting all his Ax/JJ.

so you give him for calling 4bet TT+,AK and wanna bet flop unless he is checking back QQ/TT.

but, if we check and he bets QQ/TT on flop besides AK,JJ, isnt it better to c/c flop and c/f turn since like this we get value from QQ/TT?

cause if we bet, he's for sure folding worse and calling better.

[Sorcery11]

Betting the flop or not depends on your villain. If our villain is decent, we are going to get exploited a fair amount here by checking. Betting keeps our range wider also as we can have air, medium str hands, and hands we are willing to felt. Having said that, it doesn't look like we have to worry about being outplayed much by this villain based on his stats. A check on the flop is probably fine.

I'm folding the turn to a bet from this player as I'd expect to be behind a value bet, and I don't think he will try and bluff us off of anything in our 4bet range.

[fokus smokus]

i would c/f the turn simply to protect our equity. if we bet it allows villain to raise with his 4bt flat range which would be a difficult call

[spoonitnow]

i would c/f the turn simply to protect our equity. if we bet it allows villain to raise with his 4bt flat range which would be a difficult call

wat

[rpm]

hahah yeah that's what i thought when i read that sentence.

[Shotglass]

i would c/f the turn simply to protect our equity. if we bet it allows villain to raise with his 4bt flat range which would be a difficult call

OMFG

[Icanhastreebet]

...okay 25c flop. Note his timing. Figure out what to bet on the turn or if we should bet depending on his timing. The shittiest thing here though if he's already planned to call our flop bet with AA in which case we still won't lose much because if he calls flop quickly we are just betting like 1/10th pot again. I'd fold at any point the villain raises. If when I said bet you people thought I meant like 1/2-3/4 pot or something ridiculous like that you have a lot of things to start thinking about mainly how is villain going to react if do X as opposed to Y.

If you people got your head out of your ass and stopped being lazy and started thinking about these things. These things being hey my villain is ALWAYS going to have timing tells, bet sizing tells, super obvious lines that I can easily pick up on if I stop surfing the web or chatting about useless shit while playing you would all crush the stake you play for 5ptbb with ease. You're all just too worried about calculating your fucking pot odds to the exact decimal point and what the fuck happened to snoooky or w/e that bitches name is on Jershey Shore last night.

[Icanhastreebet]

Actually here's a project for all of you. For the next 5 to 25 thousand hands you play don't surf the web. Don't chat. Don't play too many tables but play enough so you don't get too bored. Pay attention to everyones sizing at every point in every hand on every table. Pay more attention to players on your right and players who are very loose aka fish for the most part because you'll be in more pots with these guys.
Also since you are doing this. GUESS WHAT? Now we have time to scan the lobby. Take the best seats we can find at our stake. Don't do this all the time especially if you are about to move up or you'll just become a bumhunter who breaks even in 2-3 levels cause all the regs own you. I dare you to do this and not absolutely crush. I fucking dare you.

[riverhero222]

i think here raise the good play

[d0zer]

i think here raise the good play

raise the good play yeah call but then we play nuts when fold/call good yes?

[daviddem]

raise the good play yeah call but then we play nuts when fold/call good yes?

post of the month imo