AQo SB vs BTN 10NL FR

[Donachello]

Villain appears to be a maniac running about 35/27 with a 60% ATS. I have not 3bet him before and I haven't seen him show down that many hands. From what I can tell though he's probably really bad.

I don't really know if I like how this hand played out so I am just going to reason through my though process and would appreciate comments on all streets.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($10)
MP ($6)
Button ($24.12)
SB ($18.70)
Hero (BB) ($10.16)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A
1 fold, MP checks, Button bets $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, Button calls $0.90

easy 3bet given positions, hand strs and player types.

Flop: ($2.55) 2, Q, 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, Button raises to $2.40, Hero calls $1.20

This cbet should have been a bit bigger considering who this player is as I expect him to never fold AK, KQ, QJ, 99-JJ. His min raise is pretty much wtf but because he is unknown in terms of how he plays big hands I think that raising is pretty bad. I elect to call basically planning to c/c the turn as I think he shoves it with at least KQ,QJ, AK (only because he sucks) and obviously AA,KK,QQ.

Turn: ($7.35) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3.20, Hero raises to $6.56 (All-In), Button calls $3.36

His bet size makes absolutely no sense here. Though it could be interpreted that that he is trying to get me to fold without risking too much. I guess calling is probably better and hoping he bluffs the river or I bink an A but I can't see folding TPTK vs this player to this bet size. Anyway, I jammed because I only had 3.36 behind which commits me and literally any river anyway.

[Razvan729]

i would have played the same this hand... he could have hit the set, but flop raise doesnt say that. more likely he is on Qx or drawing to flush... maybe AJso+ or flush combos 910sh+

so its fine played by me. but i still play 2nl

[daviddem]

Why 3b so big preflop? I think I keep it to $0.9, so that I am not borderline committed when he calls and I cbet. With $1.2 if you make a decent 2/3-3/4 pot cbet on the flop you already have 40% of your stack in the pot.

As you said, you should probably have bet bigger on the flop, but then you are pretty much committed. If you made it small to stay below the commitment threshold and leave yourself room to fold if he raises, that's fine, but then when he does raise shouldn't you fold? (never mind the sizing with these donks, with them, a minraise means a raise, they don't think about sizing). If your mind was made up that you were not going to fold if he raised, then bet bigger and then no need to hesitate to shove over his minraise.

As played, I think that if he raises in a 3b pot with all the crap you listed, he is not gonna fold if you shove over, so get it over with because there are tons of scare cards that could come on the turn (K's, J's, T's 9's, all hearts...).

Not sure why you don't include 22, 66 and flush draws in his range. You probably can't exclude AA-QQ 100% but discount a little as he is likely to have 4b them preflop.

On the turn, I think his turn betting range stays the same as his flop raising range, so yeah, shove.

The real question is that of his flop raising range. Obviously if you are confident that he does that in a 3b pot with the range you assigned him, then go ahead.

Some post flop reads would definitely help.

[philly and the phanatics]

its cash games, when someones range on the river is like literally everything that beats you (im not saying thats the case here, but in general) it does not matter how much you have put in the pot or how much you have left it can still be -ev to call.


as for this hand i like 3bet sizing pre...you are going to be oop so playing with a smaller SPR is beneficial to you. Also you extract most value from him when you are like def ahead (he is probably flatting your 3bet with a ton of broadways and pps)

id go ahead and get it in on the flop probably against this guy if he is as bad as you are saying. you probably only have like 45% equity but theres a fuck ton of dead money and he could spazz with something like AK or JJ or you could discount some AA/KK cause he didnt 4bet which would give you over the 50% you need to do it purely for value. (you probably do have some fold equity so i think the combined equities make this an EV+ play)

You have 45% equity vs 22,66,QQ+, QJ+ and 4 Ahxh combos


as played i like the c/bomb

[Imthenewfish]

maybe 3b a little smaller pre, but theres also dead money from the poster so it seems fine. I like sizing on flop and c/shove turn. I don't really see the merits in stacking the flop because like everything hes value towning himself with is getting it in on the turn and it keeps bloofs in his range

[oskar]

Stats are not indicative of villain being a maniac. I assume you have seen him spew some?
3b sizing is fine. His flop minraise is a decent adjustment in steal vs blind situations when the blind 3-bets a ton and c-bets 100%. This makes me think he watches poker training videos and doesn't understand what's going on. Doesn't make a lot of sense if this is the first time you 3b him, obviously.

Turn c/shove is really a check/call. It's not like calling is an option with less than 1/4 pot behind. His turn size makes me want to throw up a little, but you don't really have a choice imo. He looks like someone who might be capable of sizing a bluff like this. call/shove and make a note.

[daven]

35-27 shorthanded over small sample is not maniac, especially if you were 2-4 handed for some of the time. I don't understand how you have no reads if he's somehow managed to end up 240bb deep? was he already deep when you sat?

pre looks fine. Flop is weird once he min-raises and that's basically where the important decision is. Put him on a flop range, note the 7s turn changes about nothing.

[Donachello]

@daven I should have included that we had only been 5 handed for a few hands and he was already deep before I sat.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Just to confirm my read he tanked for about 4 seconds and called my jam with AJo. lolol

[middleburn]

id go ahead and get it in on the flop probably

this

like hes a maniac so hes raising u for value on the flop w like 66 22 vs all his bluffs soothed semi bluffs and Qx shit.

[daviddem]

Can you guys please expand on the rationale behind the preflop 3b sizing? Pot sized would be $1 or $1.1, do you generally tend to overbet the pot when you 3b OOP?

With $1.2, SPR=3.5
With $1.05, SPR=4.2
With $0.9, SPR=4.95
Can you please explain why 3.5 is better?

[Donachello]

When you are OOP you want to 3bet bigger to better define their range, lower the number of streets it takes to get the money in and to also give yourself a better incentive to fold hands that you are not planning on stacking off pre with. I'm sure there are plenty of good players who 3b smaller than 4x OOP. For me, it's a personal preference to 4x instead of 3x and it also makes a 5bet shove not as big of an overbet when they 4bet you.

Simply put, I like building big pots with big hands.

[d0zer]

When you are OOP you want to 3bet bigger to better define their range

an extra 1 or 2 BBs is not likely to change a bad player's calling range much at all.

Simply put, I like building big pots with big hands.

This is a great reason. If you're 3bet bluffing a player a lot, you have to worry about the price you're giving yourself on that bluff and then balancing that 3b sizing against potentially observant opponents. When you're playing against unobservant donks who you're never 3b bluffing, then sizing it bigger for value is good/std.

David: lower SPRs help commit your loose villain to the hand making it easier for you to get paid.


Hand is played well imo, DC is a pro obv

[HarleyGuy13]

Villain appears to be a maniac running about 35/27 with a 60% ATS. I have not 3bet him before and I haven't seen him show down that many hands. From what I can tell though he's probably really bad.

I don't really know if I like how this hand played out so I am just going to reason through my though process and would appreciate comments on all streets.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($10)
MP ($6)
Button ($24.12)
SB ($18.70)
Hero (BB) ($10.16)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A
1 fold, MP checks, Button bets $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, Button calls $0.90

easy 3bet given positions, hand strs and player types.

Flop: ($2.55) 2, Q, 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, Button raises to $2.40, Hero calls $1.20

This cbet should have been a bit bigger considering who this player is as I expect him to never fold AK, KQ, QJ, 99-JJ. His min raise is pretty much wtf but because he is unknown in terms of how he plays big hands I think that raising is pretty bad. I elect to call basically planning to c/c the turn as I think he shoves it with at least KQ,QJ, AK (only because he sucks) and obviously AA,KK,QQ.

Turn: ($7.35) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3.20, Hero raises to $6.56 (All-In), Button calls $3.36

His bet size makes absolutely no sense here. Though it could be interpreted that that he is trying to get me to fold without risking too much. I guess calling is probably better and hoping he bluffs the river or I bink an A but I can't see folding TPTK vs this player to this bet size. Anyway, I jammed because I only had 3.36 behind which commits me and literally any river anyway.

Blind response again.

Pre: I am totally with you on the raise given position and reads. I wonder could we ever make an arguement here for just calling since he's a maniac and we doubt he'll fold much of his range? I only ask this because maybe we don't want to prime a large pot? I'd give him a starting range something like: {22+,A2s+,K8s+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,A8o+,KTo+, QTo+,JTo}

Flop: Of course we love this flop that goes without saying although the c-bet is a little weak imo. I think the size may have caused us some problems. I find myself wondering did you get raised because the size of the c-bet?

Turn: I think I'm pretty much there with you on this. His bet is either a weak as bluff hoping for a fold or value of an odd size.


I got interupted numerous times while working on this. Sorry I am in my office today.

.

[NightGizmo]

I wonder could we ever make an arguement here for just calling since he's a maniac and we doubt he'll fold much of his range? I only ask this because maybe we don't want to prime a large pot?

I've considered this myself against maniacs, and I'm curious what others think about calling with AK/AQ vs. 3betting.

My problem with AK/AQ is that they are not really made hands, so you have to improve to really feel good about getting value out of them. After all, you don't want to stack off with AQ and lose to 56o that made a pair, right?

So, working on these premises:
1) If you don't have any fold equity, the value of AK and AQ goes down because you have to hit your hand to continue.
2) The villain does not like to fold.
3) The villain likes to bet and raise as often as possible.

Wouldn't the logical conclusion be to just call and then come out firing if you hit your hand?

[Donachello]

Blind response again.

Pre: I am totally with you on the raise given position and reads. I wonder could we ever make an arguement here for just calling since he's a maniac and we doubt he'll fold much of his range? I only ask this because maybe we don't want to prime a large pot? I'd give him a starting range something like: {22+,A2s+,K8s+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,A8o+,KTo+, QTo+,JTo}

Flop: Of course we love this flop that goes without saying although the c-bet is a little weak imo. I think the size may have caused us some problems. I find myself wondering did you get raised because the size of the c-bet?

Given that he is a maniac AQo is plenty strong enough to build a big pot with since it is safe to assume he will be playing a hand like QT like the nuts on this board. I agree that with this player the flop bet size could lead to being raised, however, half pot is fairly standard in 3bet pots although I think that I probably could have tailored this better given the player. Although, if this is the case there could be an argument for wanting him to raise with all sorts of garbage though it puts me in a gross spot without more reads.

[couriermike]

Well played. TPTK is the nuts against this player. I like the half pot bet otf too. Betting small against this player type will induce a raise from almost their entire range.