What do you think of this line?

[HarleyGuy13]

Villain is lagg. flop range for cbetting very wide, 30% double barrel %. Do you like my line?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, BB's (7 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (100BB’s)
MP1 (159BB’s)
MP2 (99BB’s)
CO (100BB’s)
Button (377.5BB’s)
Hero (SB) (110BB’s)
BB (238.25BB’s)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A
3 folds, CO bets 3BB's, 1 fold, Hero calls 3BB's, 1 fold

Flop: (7BB's) Q, 5, 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 4.5BB's, Hero calls 4.5BB's

Turn: (16BB's) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 10.25BB's, Hero calls 10.25BB's

River: (36.5BB's) A (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 23.75BB's, Hero calls 23.75BB's

Total pot: 84BB's| Rake: 3/4BB's


Very curious and looking forward to feedback please!

[kfaess]

Have any reads on how he reacts to 3bets? I'd guess you could prob 3bet this for value PF.

I like it, given the reads. The river bet is in $ instead of BB so I'm not really sure what he's betting there but if its not full pot I'd shove.

[daven]

c-shove river and it's beautiful

i probably overbet donk-shove the turn, cos that's pure. Your line is better.

[Donachello]

Shove the river and it's not close at all. Otherwise nice hand.

[couriermike]

Well played. c/c is good since he's bluffing alot.

[kmind]

nope c/shove river for sure

[Carroters]

If he's calling wide to 3 bets then you can happily go ahead and make this part of your value 3 bet range expecting to dominate his continuing range a lot. It's not a huge deal though and calling here is defo good here too, and often better depending how he reacts to 3-bets.

As has been said shove the river vs Ax worse 2 pair and be happy about the easily more than 50% equity you have vs his calling range.

[daviddem]

i probably overbet donk-shove the turn, cos that's pure.

lol... no kidding...

Useless to say at this point I guess, but "why does he not shove over on the river?" is the first thing I thought when I saw the hand (without reading the other posts).

[couriermike]

c/shove river is good, but c/c flop and turn is really good vs the lag since there's so much air in his range

[Icanhastreebet]

c/shove seems bad with the information we have, 8 combos we are losing to for sure(55,77,QQ,AA) then possibly 8-32 combos of straights and 3 more combos of 33, Villain who 2barrels 30% isn't 2barreling A7,A5(if he even c-bets this in the first place) Also villain who only 2barrel 30% probably doesn't 2barrel naked ace high enough to have a lot of Ax that will call a river shove.

Unless harley is not giving up us something very important like villain likes to 2barrel 2nd/3rd pair and naked ace highs then c/c is definitely best.

[Micro2Macro]

what she said ^

[daviddem]

c/shove seems bad with the information we have, 8 combos we are losing to for sure(55,77,QQ,AA) then possibly 8-32 combos of straights and 3 more combos of 33, Villain who 2barrels 30% isn't 2barreling A7,A5(if he even c-bets this in the first place) Also villain who only 2barrel 30% probably doesn't 2barrel naked ace high enough to have a lot of Ax that will call a river shove.

Unless harley is not giving up us something very important like villain likes to 2barrel 2nd/3rd pair and naked ace highs then c/c is definitely best.

So if I understand correctly what you're saying, he bets the river with nuts type of hands and some complete air but not that much at all?

If that is the case, for harley to make the call, villain would have to have at least 28% air when getting on the river (and bluff all of it). Does that not seem unlikely if he only 2-barrels 30% of all his hands?

Sorry if I am missing something, just trying to understand why c/c is right.

[couriermike]

At the micros, you could expect someone to call the river c/shove with a much wider range than at higher stakes, almost their entire river betting range, for emotional reasons. Against better players at higher stakes, the c/shove is only value-cutting ourselves against better hands. But at 5nl I think it's ok. Of course c/c is good too because our hand is worth about three streets of value but probably not four in principle.

[Icanhastreebet]

@ david, he's gonna have loads of bluffs because he isn't 2barreling any non nut hands for value and he's probably just gonna triple all his missed spades/gutshots/68 + random spazz(Probably still not enough random naked aces to make c/shove better).

[Micro2Macro]

At the micros, you could expect someone to call the river c/shove with a much wider range than at higher stakes, almost their entire river betting range, for emotional reasons. Against better players at higher stakes, the c/shove is only value-cutting ourselves against better hands. But at 5nl I think it's ok. Of course c/c is good too because our hand is worth about three streets of value but probably not four in principle.

uhh if anything its WORSE at 5nl than say, 600nl because the average 5nl reg isn't going to be able to value bet thinly whereas the mid stakes regular will be looking for spots to merge. thus, the 5nl reg won't even have worse hands in his range he could call with, whereas the 600nl reg would be more likely to.

if you want to ignore the description of the villain OP posted that's fine, we can talk generalities. I just gave you the general lay down and c/shove is generally better the higher the stakes than it is at lower. I hate blanket statements like this though because considering the opponent you are up against and not how much money is on the table is way more important.

as far as 'how many streets our hand is worth' goes, it depends a lot on the opponent and this history with them. 2 pair isn't just an 'x' street hand, as your relative hand strength to your opponents range in any given spot is what is important and should be the determinant of how you play it out.

[couriermike]

^^^Thanks for explaining that to me, micro.

Edit:
It is really awesome that high stakes players post in the micro forum. That is so unusual and great. FTR is very different from other forums. And micro players can (reasonably) post in the HS forum? That is so cool! So I'll say it again, thanks, man.

[Micro2Macro]

no problem home slice :P