First Impressions of Rush Poker

[Donachello]

When I first read the description of the new update on FTP i was really skeptical. "Rush Poker?" To me it seemed like just an idea for make exceptionally high variance gambling paramount. I gave it a try today playing 2 tables of .05/.10 6max rush and I gotta admit it was pretty fun. I basically ended up just folding everything except AK and pocket pairs and utterly avoided ever playing UTG or in the blinds. I played for about half an hour, got in 315 hands, and made about 10 bucks. Actually, I could have finished up almost 20 but it becomes pretty easy to spew away money when you zip through the blinds so fast and can snap fold to any 3bet or shove when you are probably beat. What I did notice is that I got about 35-40 FPP in 30 minutes which could make getting an Ironman Rank extremely easy as rake is still calculated the same apparently which means you could be involved in thousands of huge raking hands in a two hour session but only see a small fraction of them. The jury is still out for me on whether I'll spend any significant time playing it or not since the lack of reads and overall actual poker play involved is pretty minimal. Regardless, the fish are out in HUGE numbers and if you do end up having a good hand chances are you'll get paid off really nicely.

[surviva316]

i didn't read the OP but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chi9H...eature=related

except replace call of duty with rush pokarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[daviddem]

I tried it in play money, played about 300 hands in an hour. I think it's great, at least for the micros where the field of players is very wide and even if you sit at a single table the turnover of players is huge, so developing reads and a feel for the table is difficult anyway.

Somehow, I think I like this better than multi-tabling. Full Tilt had a great idea there.

[Jason]

I'm not sure what I think. At first I thought it was fun and innovative. Then after playing for a while, I thought "where's the skill" without reads, notes, and table dynamics? The variance or my play has been brutal. I ran into literally 5 sets that all beat me just now in less than 30 minutes. My queen high flush lost to an ace high flush. Then I got QQ allin on the turn 80% favorite against ATo on a dry board and the river binks an ace. Yesterday was pretty similar except add in a set over set loser. I guess it should even out, but I can't help but think if I was at one table getting reads, I'd be getting away from some of these hands or losing less.

[Donachello]

@Jason I agree for the most part. The swings are just insane. I put in another 1000 hands yesterday 3tabling it and at one point was up like 4.5 buy ins only to finish exactly even due 2 pair < 2pair, set < flush, and QQ < rivered A by a floating donk. I don't think Rush will ever get close to replacing the multi table grind but it's pretty fun to break up the monotony every once in a while. Also while the fish are still abundant you can make a bit of money in the short run though I'll probably just be using it to earn the Iron man rank since a 200 point day now only takes about 2 hours which is absurdly easy haha

[al yell]

I find it makes for a very nitty game that is heavily weighted toward pf.

[daviddem]

True, the players/flop stats are on the low side... Since it is so fast to get a new hand when you fold, people are probably less tempted to play marginal hands.

[surviva316]

i think simply dismissing the game as normal poker except it's mindless and stupid because we can't get reads on people, isn't really thoroughly thinking the game through, imo. let me put it this way, if we can't get reads on our opponents, then what does that mean? DING DING! they can't gather reads on us!

that means we can play as unbalanced as fuck and get away with it. in other words, we can get away with murder. you're OTB and a full stacker opens for 3bb's in the CO. well we can laugh and call with like QTo, knowing that we can minraise bluff K72r flops and so forth, and the fuck's he gonna do about it?

also, i haven't open folded a single button in rush poker because if i get a decent hand, i open it for the standard 3x's, and if i get garbage like 63o, i just min raise. it gets called like 90% of the time and like 75% of the times it's called, villain just c/f's.

also, barrelling is THEEEE FOOKING NIZZLES!!!!! i'm used to having pretty dirty images at the 50/100nl stars games that i play (even among the fish), so i actually have to worry about crap like repping hands and bluffing frequencies and being played back at (and being called down crazy light by fish). yAAwn was tellin' me (and i think it makes perfect sense, and it has seemed pretty true through my first 2k hands) that variance is prolly gonna be a lot lower (at least in the initial stages of the game where people let you get away with murder 'cause they're not adjusting) because fish now don't get nearly as impatient single tabling and start calling down with sevens on a QJT2 board, yet we'll still get paid off 'cause they'll still call down anything with TP+

[Outlaw]

No-read poker is fun You wait for AA and in the meantime get eaten alive by blinds. WOOHOO

Why would any decent player do this btw? 300 hands an hour with no reads is boring. I'd rather 24-table on stars and play 1750 hands per hour WITH reads. 50% rakeback is nice too.

[oskar]

I am totally confused by it. Now I have to figure out what the best play is in a specific situation against A MILLION ranges?
So it comes down to either trying to play unexploitable or figuring out the best play against average stats, and then you just click buttons.

I don't like it because it will remove a huge number of level 0 players from the regular tables, and anybody who thinks past their own hand will likely stay at the regular tables.

[Jason]

Yeah, I think I'm done with Rush Poker. Unlike my regular games, I can never assess why I win when I win and lose when I lose. It all seems very random and I am hard pressed to label any gameplay in Rush Poker as fishy or skillful. I think good players and bad players are winning. I also think both good players and bad players are losing, too.

i think simply dismissing the game as normal poker except it's mindless and stupid because we can't get reads on people, isn't really thoroughly thinking the game through, imo. let me put it this way, if we can't get reads on our opponents, then what does that mean? DING DING! they can't gather reads on us!

that means we can play as unbalanced as fuck and get away with it. in other words, we can get away with murder. you're OTB and a full stacker opens for 3bb's in the CO. well we can laugh and call with like QTo, knowing that we can minraise bluff K72r flops and so forth, and the fuck's he gonna do about it?

I tried not to dismiss it and actually embraced it, but I don't follow your line of thinking. We can't get reads on them. They can't get reads on us. That does not give us an advantage, which is what I want. Then you go on and say what you can get away with. But, why do you think you can get away with it? Because you had a session where it worked? That sound very results oriented and I prefer reads, ranges, and a large sample size before I deem something a good play or not. Everything you just said may be correct now, but not tomorrow. When the players always change and the players are always changing how they react to the game, how can you play profitably long term? And, just to be clear, just because you're winning today, doesn't necessarily mean you will tomorrow. All defenses of the game I've seen have been from a results oriented point of view with no solid evidence I can see that any particular strategy can be applied successfully long term or how to adjust if needed.

That's the core problem with it. They've removed the key elements of skill like reads, table dynamics, and player history. Furthermore, any strategy that may work today has no guarantee of working tomorrow and the process of adjusting is riddled with complications when your opponents and Rush Poker Universe are constantly changing. Throw in all the variance and YIKES! If poker wasn't hard enough, good luck figuring out if you're a winner in that game.

I'm with Outlaw. If you're a winning player, I don't see why you'd get swept up in the hype. This game only seems to take away your skill advantage. I gave it a shot. It wouldn't bother me if I'm wrong and I am open-minded to admit when I am. If I see enough good results over 50k to 100k hands, arguments for solid strategy, and all the fish are there, maybe I'll try again, but, I haven't really seen evidence of where the tangible skill lies and how to obtain it. Winning ANYTHING is all about your edge, and I think Rush Poker simply takes it away. It IS fun and addictive, though - I'll give you that, but just not a viable profitable game imo.

[surviva316]

yeah, i mean my initial intention with the post wasn't to make it sound like rush poker is the shit or anything, but just to point out that the game isn't all mindless nitting it up, and that you can have some fun with the game.

if you forced me to guess, i'd prolly say that it won't be good for the greater Full Tilt poker community, but i have no credentials to make such predictions. i also would agree with you in strongly doubting that anyone who's any good at poker will find a GREATER edge playing rush poker than normal styles. i also agree with you (and suggested it a few times in my post) that the game will prolly evolve pretty quickly and that min raising like a monkey and so forth will prolly become the new 3b'ing, and players will start to play back and crap.

all i'm saying is that i'm having fun with rush poker (i don't even know if i'm in the black playing it because it's been such a small sample, i just feel my strategies have been effective and seem very tough to exploit in the game's current state) and that while it sucks to be confused about what's going on and not being able to put villains on precise ranges and so forth, we can take advantage of those exact things by running over people who's natural reaction is going to be to nit it up and fold whenever they face uncertainty (especially OOP).

btw, i've played really nitty myself and haven't called hardly any bets because in a game that centers on uncertainty, WE should obviously be the ones putting THEM to the tough decisions and that's how we maximize their expectation for making mistakes and maximize our expectation for makin' da mannies.

idk, not trying to start a pissing contest, just thought this thread was a place to express our initial thoughts on this thing called rush pokah

[Jason]

No, I'm glad you've posted and I like talking about it. This game has had me thinking about it from the moment it came out. I think we should all talk about it more to determine who should play it and why? I agree with you on the fun factor. It is fun. It will probably be difficult for me not to play because it is fun. I'll have to think of it as an EV thing. I've never had a problem staying away from slot machines, dice games, or blackjack. Rush Poker LOOKS a lot like real poker but may be closer to those other games.

Those strategies you laid out seem logical and thought out and we need to have more discussion about it because IF the fish go there and stay there and IF there are viable strategies to beat them, we need to cultivate them.

[Micro2Macro]

sounds like a rake trap. I haven't played it though, just taking a guess.

[Sam62]

I am having a blast in Rush poker ... I agree that this is a micro stakes grinders dream!!!! At micro tables you play with alot of people and even with software its not easy getting a large sample on alot of your oppenents. When you do finally get a get sample and make the right decision you get a bad beat ... ahhhh

Enter Rush: Play tight smart mathmatical poker and you will have in my opinion better results than multi-tabling micro stakes. You never get bored to play that tempting hand in the small blind.

I am enjoying it and up about $60 playing .10/.25 after roughly 1500 hands. The beauty is the speed ... so many hands so fast. I earned 145 FTP in 40 minutes during happy hour. CRAZY!!!!!

[Roller]

No Reads
No Table Image.
No Reason to even pay attention.
No Reason to play such a senseless NON POKER Game.

Nothing wrong with new ideas but this IMO is without purpose.

[xX zorrito Xx]

i'm watching youtube videos of this rush poker thing and it looks very easy to exploit preflop...

i'd be raising with any pocket pair or suited connector and almost in any position with the tightness of preflop action i've been seeing...