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Dealing with constant PF raises

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  1. #1

    Default Dealing with constant PF raises

    So I know I'm a nit and totally tentative but I just sat down to a session and played about 150 hands, about 90% of which were raised preflop in some capacity. Stakes are only 5NL.

    What I was finding is that I was constantly folding hands that I probably would have raised with in my position, because it had already been raised before me. Now, through time I found out which guys were raising with ATC or suited garbage and never got a decent enough hand to exploit but I was getting super frustrated.

    So - better to lessen my opening range and wait for the nuts and then explode all over them, or start getting more aggressive and 3 betting some of the really bad pf raisers with stuff that I would normally not 3 bet with?
  2. #2
    3bet once in awhile will keep them honest. They don't know u don't have a really strong hand. I find alot of times they'll just fold to 3bet, if not they'll fold on the flop.
  3. #3
    Chopper's Avatar
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    better yet, pay attention to WHO is raising. someone will call the light raisers down. once you peg who is who, 3bet them.

    dont just blindly 3bet because it will stop the raising. you have to adjust to WHO is doing the raising.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  4. #4
    Stacks's Avatar
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    Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
    How about you walk through this situation addressing the correct theory behind why you would choose to adjust and how to do so correctly.

    (1) If I'm opening a wide range, and you have position on me.. In what ways can you exploit me?

    (2) If you choose to 3bet me more, what hands should you do it with? This question hinges on how I play against your 3bets, eg. am I calling them often OOP, am I 4betting, or am I folding often? Each action should help you form a different 3betting range.

    (3) Given the methods to exploit preflop, how does this carry over to postflop? For example, if I'm opening a wide range, and therefore you are calling a wide range, then when we get to the flop, and I cbet my wide range, you can do what to exploit me?
  5. #5
    OP, defo have a go at answering these 3 questions ^^^^ it will help your though process a ton.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
    How about you walk through this situation addressing the correct theory behind why you would choose to adjust and how to do so correctly.

    (1) If I'm opening a wide range, and you have position on me.. In what ways can you exploit me?

    (2) If you choose to 3bet me more, what hands should you do it with? This question hinges on how I play against your 3bets, eg. am I calling them often OOP, am I 4betting, or am I folding often? Each action should help you form a different 3betting range.

    (3) Given the methods to exploit preflop, how does this carry over to postflop? For example, if I'm opening a wide range, and therefore you are calling a wide range, then when we get to the flop, and I cbet my wide range, you can do what to exploit me?
    Okay, I'll bite:

    1) If I have position then I have the ability to 3 bet with the hands that (according to what I believe your range is) will provide me an advantage after the flop because I get to act last every street.

    2) I should do it with value hands, open up my range to include things like suited connectors which I can get a guy who plays TPMK a lot to play into when I hit a good flop. However, if I am playing against a guy who tends to fold a lot to 3 bets then I can open up even more - if he tends to 4 bet back into me then I might need to tighten it up a bit.

    3) Since I know his range (or should) then after the flop I can exploit the fact that if I hit a piece of it, depending on his aggression after the flop it will tell me a lot. Also, it will depend on what I have analyzed about his post flop play and anything I have seen shown down. Does he tend to chase draws, does he push with TPTK, etc.
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
    How about you walk through this situation addressing the correct theory behind why you would choose to adjust and how to do so correctly.

    (1) If I'm opening a wide range, and you have position on me.. In what ways can you exploit me?

    (2) If you choose to 3bet me more, what hands should you do it with? This question hinges on how I play against your 3bets, eg. am I calling them often OOP, am I 4betting, or am I folding often? Each action should help you form a different 3betting range.

    (3) Given the methods to exploit preflop, how does this carry over to postflop? For example, if I'm opening a wide range, and therefore you are calling a wide range, then when we get to the flop, and I cbet my wide range, you can do what to exploit me?
    Well said man, looking from the villain's perspective really clarifies things. You seriously should expand on this and make a guide on exploiting LIDs (Loose Idiots)
  8. #8
    1) Another way to exploit these guys in position may be to slowplay big hands if they fire a c-bet with significant %.
  9. #9
    XTR1000's Avatar
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    3betting pre is not the only way to exploit a wide opening range

    The way villian responds to 3bets does not only determine how wide/tight you want to be 3balling, but also on how to compose your range to 3ball him. (Hint: 3bet-bluffing)
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
    yo
  10. #10
    JKDS's Avatar
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    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...he-t77410.html

    read this, then try to think of other things we can do to ppl that are opening a wide range with 3betting, as well as calling and what hands work best for it (hands with value is not an answer, list actual hands)
  11. #11
    Stacks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponyboy
    Okay, I'll bite:

    1) If I have position then I have the ability to 3 bet with the hands that (according to what I believe your range is) will provide me an advantage after the flop because I get to act last every street.

    This is true. You will be in position, which will lead to obvious benefits postflop in every pot you play, 3bet or not. You will have 1 street more information to react upon than your opponent. This leads to getting more value when ahead, losing less when behind, as well as better defining villain's range, among other things. So it's pretty safe to say that when we have position on a villain playing a wide range, that we want to play more pots in position, rather than less. So loosening up is the correct adjustment, rather than tightening up. If you tighten up, then you are allowing his gameplan of playing and stealing alot of pots to work for him.

    As XTR said, 3betting isn't the only way to exploit a wide range preflop. Calling is also incredibly profitable. It would be beneficial for you to read Renton's ABCD theorem artitcle in the FR Digest, to better understand how to formulate your ranges, specifically your preflop 3bet value, call, 3bet bluff ranges.



    2) I should do it with value hands, open up my range to include things like suited connectors which I can get a guy who plays TPMK a lot to play into when I hit a good flop. However, if I am playing against a guy who tends to fold a lot to 3 bets then I can open up even more - if he tends to 4 bet back into me then I might need to tighten it up a bit.


    With reference to this, XTR already commented on how the way in which villain responds to your 3bets will determine not only the frequency with which you should 3bet, but also the range you do this with.

    For instance, if villain is opening a wide range, and folding to 3bets very often, then 3bet bluffing is going to be highly profitable. So I can show a profit by 3bettig hands like T7s, K4s, A3s, etc (and even more depending on his fold to 3bet stat), that I would normally just fold. This is because he is folding often enough for the 3bet to be profitable based solely on the fold equity (add postflop fold equity + pot equity + position, and it's fairly profitable). Now if he's folding so often, 3betting my nut hands like QQ+ isn't going to show a huge profit, as he is often going to fold. So in correct spots, it can very likely be best to flat with these hands preflop against a villain who folds to 3bets often. So against this villain we would weight our 3bet range towards bluffing as that will show a profit, and begin flatting (in good spots. For example, don't flat when there is already multiple opponents in the pot etc) our monster hands, as that will show a greater profit by getting extra value postflop from his wide range (through his tendency to cbet, double/triple barrel, and stack off with marginal hands).

    Now, if a villain is calling 3bets often, or even 4betting often, then 3bet bluffing becomes less profitable, as we don't have the needed fold equity. Therefore, it is usually wise to adjust your 3betting range more towards value, as he will so often be calling with worse hands. So you would widen your 3betting range to exploit his tendency to call with so many worse hands.


    3) Since I know his range (or should) then after the flop I can exploit the fact that if I hit a piece of it, depending on his aggression after the flop it will tell me a lot. Also, it will depend on what I have analyzed about his post flop play and anything I have seen shown down. Does he tend to chase draws, does he push with TPTK, etc.

    Now to see how his tendencies preflop carry over into postflop, and how we can exploit that, is pretty easy. If I'm opening a wide range preflop, and you call in position, and I'm cbetting with a high frequency, then that means you can continue against that cbet relatively often. You should be quite willing to continue with 'marginal' hands that you would usually be willing to fold. Or you should be bluff raising often, as my range contains a fair amount of air hands. The same goes for if villain is double/triple barreling often, this means your range for calling down should be wider than if it was against an individual who didn't double/triple barrel bluff often. If I'm stacking off light (hands like any TP, gutshot draws, etc), then you need to widen your stack off range. But still keep it stronger than my stackoff range, so that on average your have better equity in the pot than I do.

    Basically, to determine how to best exploit a villain, you first need to recognize what his leaks are. If he's folding too often, then he's open to being bluffed alot. If he's stacking off too light, then you should be loosening your value range, and playing it faster. If he's 3betting with a wide range, then he's susceptible to 4bet bluffs, as well as your 3bet calling/4betting range should widen. Once you find these leaks, just logically think through what you can do that would best emphasize the mistakes these leaks produce.

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