YAY saturday night..

[Chopper]

3rd hand at table. sorry no reads, and no conversion. nothing would convert this hand for some reason..


Hand#1924011679000014 - Westpunt (Turbo, 6-Max) 11679 -- $0.25/$0.50 FL Hold'em -- 2009/07/11 - 22:52:34
Seat 1: redb***1 ($2.75 in chips) DEALER
Seat 2: gott***2 ($12.76 in chips)
Seat 3: chal***3 ($11.05 in chips)
Seat 8: play4rollz ($15 in chips)
Seat 9: merv***9 ($10.30 in chips)
Seat 10: MrBr***10 ($9.65 in chips)
chal***3: posts small blind $0.10
play4rollz: posts big blind $0.25
Dealt to play4rollz [Th,Kh]
merv***9: calls $0.25
MrBr***10: calls $0.25
redb***1: calls $0.25
gott***2: calls $0.25
chal***3: calls $0.15
play4rollz: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qh,9h,5s]
chal***3: checks
play4rollz: checks
merv***9: checks
MrBr***10: checks
redb***1: checks
gott***2: bets $0.25
chal***3: calls $0.25
play4rollz: calls $0.25
merv***9: folds
MrBr***10: folds
redb***1: calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [Jh]
chal***3: checks
play4rollz: checks
redb***1: checks
gott***2: bets $0.50
chal***3: calls $0.50
play4rollz: raises to $1
redb***1: folds
gott***2: raises to $1.50 (thank you, PokerGods)
chal***3: calls $1
play4rollz: raises to $2
gott***2: calls $0.50
chal***3: calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [Qs]
chal***3: checks
play4rollz: bets $0.50
gott***2: raises to $1
chal***3: calls $1
play4rollz: raises to $1.50
gott***2: raises to $2
chal***3: calls $1
play4rollz: calls $0.50
***SHOW DOWN***
gott***2: shows [Td 8c] (Straight, Queen high)
chal***3: mucks
play4rollz: shows [Th Kh] (Straight Flush, King high)
play4rollz: wins $13.80 with Straight Flush, King high
chal***3: mucks [ 5c, Jd ] (TwoPair)

[KoRnholio]

Very nice. Gotta love when donks hit their gin, only to find out it's no good. I'll post my gem from the other day here.

I don't remember MP2 being any good, but he's way ahead of the rest of the donks who can't let a big pair go in the face of insane aggression. Had I known he could fold QQ+ here, I would have smooth called the turn 3bet and then check-raised the river.

(Cake) Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7, 7
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, CO calls, 3 folds, Hero calls

Flop: (10.5 SB) 7, 10, 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, CO calls, Hero calls

Turn: (9.75 BB) 3 (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, 1 fold, CO calls

River: (19.75 BB) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls

Total pot: $51.50 (25.75 BB) | Rake: $1

Results:
Hero had 7, 7 (four of a kind, sevens).
CO mucked 3, 3 (full house, threes over sevens).
Outcome: Hero won $50.50

[Chopper]

that certainly worked out. but, lemme throw a wrench in yours for a minute because i am a bit confused....w/o working the math out in my head first....

the flop line looks strange to me. we c/r? this is a spot to slowplay if we dont have a read that villains will pay two to chase. however, CO did call 3 cold pf. so, i dont know which looks better. i may donk or c/r since i will do the same with trips, fd's, and overpairs. but, i wont like doing it if i force others to call 2 cold....which we arent until the 3bet. but, now that he 3bets, why are we not capping? and, if we only call, dont we c/r the turn instead of donking the brick? thats where i am scratching my head.

if i call the 3bet on the flop, i am c/r'ing the turn. and, if i cap the flop, i donk the turn. did you have a feeling that he was going to keep the gas on and raise the turn if you donked it?

[KoRnholio]

These guys love to chase. In a big pot no one is every folding a flush draw, and very rarely two overcards either. My thought was to check-raise the flop to rep a T/88/99. When MP 3bets it, I am very sure he has JJ+, sometimes AsQs or AsKs. Wasn't sure what the CO had, could range from a flush draw, a ten, two overs.

My donk bet on the turn makes it look like I have a weak pair hand, that is trying to stop a flush draw from drawing. Plus leading out is exactly what 95% of players here won't do with 7x let alone 77.

I expected MP to raise my turn donk. I ran the risk of losing the CO if he had a weak overcard draw, but I think that is better than check-raising the turn and freezing all the action from hands worse than 7x. If the CO has a flush draw (or even a ten), he is still going to call 2 cold on the turn getting 13:2.

For the most part, my philosophy on LHE has changed from slowplaying/trapping to going for straight value. Especially when someone has shown major strength (ie, MP's 3bet preflop+flop 3bet) and will raise to protect his hand.

[Chopper]

another difference between our levels. yours are more aggro and you can count on them doing logical things when they have non-nut, but strong, hands. i still cant.

as a result, i cant slowplay anything at all....even when it warrants. in your hand, i likely think about it, but pray i am in with something willing to overplay itself and fire anyway. however, i think i cap the flop and lead the turn.

i will have to catch you on msn sometime in the next few weeks. i've been busier than stink this growing season, and have had very little playing time.

[KoRnholio]

Another component of my choosing bet-3bet lines vs check-raising ones, is that it helps balance my play. I don't have my stats, but I'd imagine I cbet 80%+ of the time. Probably a bit too high, but it helps me get a lot more value on my monsters when I lead out with them as well.

But I find the biggest factors with this player pool, is that they are willing to raise somewhat liberally, but will rarely 3bet, especially against a strong check-raise line. They get check-raised and instantly shut down even with quite strong hands. But give them a donkbet to raise and they will happily oblige.

[Chopper]

Another component of my choosing bet-3bet lines vs check-raising ones, is that it helps balance my play. I don't have my stats, but I'd imagine I cbet 80%+ of the time. Probably a bit too high, but it helps me get a lot more value on my monsters when I lead out with them as well.

But I find the biggest factors with this player pool, is that they are willing to raise somewhat liberally, but will rarely 3bet, especially against a strong check-raise line. They get check-raised and instantly shut down even with quite strong hands. But give them a donkbet to raise and they will happily oblige.

this is something we need to go into depth on, imo. you and i can do it in the future on msn, or we can start a thread here.....if possible. but, what you mention is something i notice at 50/1 and 1/2 and it gives me a bit of trouble. largely because at 25/50 the c/r or b/3b means a HUGE hand. the ones that do so liberally are easy enough to note because they are rare. but, at 50/1 and 1/2 it becomes much more commonplace.....and i shut down and let players draw cheap by giving them the initiative. i dont know where to start adjusting because it is such shell-shock from 25/50. i know they will do it with crap, but it seems i am beat when i call it down, too. small samples, but it keeps me shell-shocked.

definitely something to learn to deal with if i plan to move up permanently.

[KoRnholio]

I still play mostly 1/2 on cake. 2/4 and 3/6 (full ring) rarely get going, and when it does, it is quite rocky. But 1/2 isn't too much different from .5/1, there's a few more laggos which can really impact the game, but for the most part players aren't betting (let alone check-raising or 3betting) junk or draws very often.

I pay them off too often at first as well, but until I get a read I don't mind doing that. I'd rather call down the first time a guy makes an aggro move at the pot (and I have something to show down) to see what he has, rather than folding and then getting put in the same spot again later with no new info.

I'm on msn most nights, even if I am in away mode I am often there. I am off to Vegas for 2 1/2 weeks on July 24th though, so let's try to get a chat in before then if possible.

[Chopper]

would love to, but i am leaving for myrtle beach on thursday the 16th. we will overlap. so, we may have to catch up after our trips. be safe and have fun. (as if that isnt a given)

[KoRnholio]

After an ordeal with expedia I finally booked my trip. They kept insisting on showing me 5hr+ connecting flights (direct is 3 hours from where I live). Then twice, at literally the last second, they bumped up the price on my trip by $200 or more. Ended up booking for 20th-7th, 18 night, at a pretty good price.

I'll be staying at Binion's, planning on playing most of their daily tournies, some cash games. Probably some 8/16 at the Venetian. Maybe some 1-2NL if I see some good tables around the strip. Can't wait!