perils of the "big blind special"

[LawDude]

Everyone has a story of some silly hand they got to play for free from the big blind that turned into a monster and took down a big pot. (Personally, I remember the time I made a straight with 72 offsuit. They not only let me see the flop for free, they let me see the turn for free too so I could make my gutshot, and then they paid me off.) But I see a lot of people losing money in the big blind, so I wanted to make some points about it.

1. When there's a raise pre-flop, you need to think about what that tells you. If it's a raise from a habitual blind-stealer, that's one thing. Go ahead and defend your blind if you have something halfway-decent. But when a tight player raises pre-flop, it means that player has a good hand. I know you are getting a "discount" to call, but 94 offsuit has terrible odds against KK even with the "discount". The point of the "big blind special" is to get in for free against other players with marginal hands, not to pay to play against someone with a monster hand.

2. Remember you are out of position for the rest of the hand (unless you are only playing against the small blind). This means that even if you hit the flop reasonably well, you aren't necessarily going to know what everyone else has and whether you are ahead or behind. (The reverse holds true too and is one of the reasons why limping is often a bad idea-- the big blind could hold anything and may crush some flop that looks perfectly innocuous.)

3. Remember the disadvantages of bad hands. When they form pairs, they often have weak kickers and get outkicked. When they form straights, they may form the lower end while someone else hits the higher end. When they form flushes, someone else may have a higher flush. In general, people who pay to get into a hand are going to have better cards than people who come in for free. You have to do reads and watch out for situations where, for instance, you flop top pair and are out-kicked or you have a 9-high flush and someone else has an ace-high flush. And you have to be willing to lay down your "big blind special" if someone else is representing a better hand and your reads tell you that he is likely to have it.

[Fnord]

Part of me smiles when I see the bottom two pair monster these guys mine for get counterfeighted or run into a bigger two pair or set.

I think some live players play to win big pots, not to win money over-all. Big pots are fun. This is why the straddle is pure genius.

[St8ofN8]

I always put the straddle on when I can in live games. More action. More fun.

As for the BB special, I agree with most of the points you made. The only real advantage to defending your blind with crapola is getting an overpair to bet into your 6 high straight. They always pay you off in those situations. If its 3x bb or less. I say call with pretty much anything.

[Sir Pawnalot]

Thank you for another quality post.

It is great to have players here with both live and online experience.

I always put the straddle on when I can in live games. More action. More fun.

As for the BB special, I agree with most of the points you made. The only real advantage to defending your blind with crapola is getting an overpair to bet into your 6 high straight. They always pay you off in those situations. If its 3x bb or less. I say call with pretty much anything.

if you had a database for live games you'd puke if you saw your straddle stats

[kfaess]

I always put the straddle on when I can in live games. More action. More fun.

As for the BB special, I agree with most of the points you made. The only real advantage to defending your blind with crapola is getting an overpair to bet into your 6 high straight. They always pay you off in those situations. If its 3x bb or less. I say call with pretty much anything.

if you had a database for live games you'd puke if you saw your straddle stats

lol.

[Fnord]

people who straddle my button

[LawDude]

I do remember one memorable straddle hand. I had established my image as a tight player at a $100 NL game ($2/$3), and somebody out of nowhere announced a straddle (we'd been playing for a couple of hours and nobody had done it before) when I was in the big blind. So everyone dutifully called, and nobody raised. I think I had pocket 3's or something, and I mimed like I couldn't wait to get into the hand and when it got to me I shoved my entire stack in really quickly. Everyone looked at me like the skunk at the garden party, and they all folded to me, and I collected everyone's 2xBB.

I do remember one memorable straddle hand. I had established my image as a tight player at a $100 NL game ($2/$3), and somebody out of nowhere announced a straddle (we'd been playing for a couple of hours and nobody had done it before) when I was in the big blind. So everyone dutifully called, and nobody raised. I think I had pocket 3's or something, and I mimed like I couldn't wait to get into the hand and when it got to me I shoved my entire stack in really quickly. Everyone looked at me like the skunk at the garden party, and they all folded to me, and I collected everyone's 2xBB.

so you get 3.5BB pot risking 33BB?

sounds like a move you should be making with AK, not 33

[LawDude]

I do remember one memorable straddle hand. I had established my image as a tight player at a $100 NL game ($2/$3), and somebody out of nowhere announced a straddle (we'd been playing for a couple of hours and nobody had done it before) when I was in the big blind. So everyone dutifully called, and nobody raised. I think I had pocket 3's or something, and I mimed like I couldn't wait to get into the hand and when it got to me I shoved my entire stack in really quickly. Everyone looked at me like the skunk at the garden party, and they all folded to me, and I collected everyone's 2xBB.

so you get 3.5BB pot risking 33BB?

sounds like a move you should be making with AK, not 33

Nobody had anything (which I was quite aware of from the "OK we'll take a shot at this" behavior that I was witnessing-- they were treating the straddle as if their parents had given a new toy for Christmas). My 3's were actually probably good if anyone was going to call me. The pot I took down was 16x the big blind, and I risked 33x (probably a bit more in the sense that I had built my stack, though also probably a bit less because most of the other players had short stacks) the big blind to take it down. If someone called me, I was probably more than 50 percent with my pocket pair to win a pot of 82x the big blind.

Last thing: I stopped the straddling nonsense, which adds nothing useful to the game.

I say it was a great play.

[Fnord]

Last thing: I stopped the straddling nonsense, which adds nothing useful to the game.

I admire the effort you put into your posts, but I won't let something like that stand unchallenged.

Straddleing is one of the reasons the game I'm playing in is oh sooo good.

[LawDude]

Last thing: I stopped the straddling nonsense, which adds nothing useful to the game.

I admire the effort you put into your posts, but I won't let something like that stand unchallenged.

Straddleing is one of the reasons the game I'm playing in is oh sooo good.

I can certainly see that side of things. Personally, my problem with straddling goes back to why I am not really a fan of live NLHE in these parts-- I don't like the bb-to-buy-in ratio to begin with, so I'm not a huge fan of doubling it. Yes, I appreciate that this means that people are putting bigger amounts into the pot with weaker hands, but it also gives me less room to operate in terms of controlling the relationship between the relative strength of my hand (and the probability that I have equity or fold equity on other players) and the size of the amount risked.

But if you liked NLHE more than I do, than yes, I can see why you would welcome when people straddle.

[LawDude]

By the way, an interesting topic would be whether it is ever a smart play to straddle. On a very rare occasion, when I thought a table was way too tight, I have announced a blind raise under the gun (and in one instance, a straddle where it was available) for purposes of loosening up the table. Yes, I know it is a negative expected value play for the hand, but it may turn out to be positive expected value to the extent it alters the betting habits of the players at the table. At least, that was my theory.

[Fnord]

It raises the effective stakes of the game, can make players who bet absolute money uncomfortable and it's VERY VERY good to be on the Button when someone else straddles.

[LawDude]

It raises the effective stakes of the game, can make players who bet absolute money uncomfortable and it's VERY VERY good to be on the Button when someone else straddles.

As I said, I can see those points, especially the last one-- you have position on someone with a lot of chips in the middle and a crappy hand.

But this is probably as much a matter of personal preference. I find I have trouble making money with my playing style in games where the effective stakes are high in proportion to the buy-in. It basically makes everyone into a short stack. If you can thrive in this environment, more power to you-- it's probably one reason why you are a better live NLHE player than I am.