Fighting the Limpers in Microstakes

[Vinland]

I dont have a hand to show so I'll try to talk it out.

I'm finding myself tossing too many hands that I am starting to think may have some value in late position but I'm not sure.
I won't open a pot in EP with KTo or KTs. However, lets say it folds to me on the button. Often I will raise it up b/c I think it has enough value.
The problem is at the lowest stakes, it never folds around to the button, there are usually limpers in front. Is it still raise worthy? So usually, lets say UTG+1 limps in and a player in MP limps as well. I don't want to call b/c then the blinds will end up playing as well and I don't like any hand vs. 4 opponents. So often, I just toss them. Am I losing chances at some $$ here?

Should I be raising here to 5 or 6xBB to either isolate/win outright? I know that they probably aren't limping in with TT+ and they are probably limping Q,K or A up to around a ten kicker. Most likely some connectors (suit and un-suit).

I ran some pokerstove numbers against one opponent. I had KTo and I gave opponent a range of A2-A10, K5-kJ, Q6-QT, J9 (all of these suited and unsuited), also 22-99 and all connectors suit and unsuit to KQ.
I don't know if this is acurate but in early position they will limp in with lots. I ran the scenario and it gave me 55% equity.
Against 2 opponents I think it was more like 40 vs 30 & 30.


What is the standard play here for a Tight player such as myself?

[kb coolman]

A good rule of thumb in LP is to raise 4bb+1BB per limper to isolate with strong hands. It's ok to limp behind in position with speculative hands like KTs, but realize what you're after (two pair or a FD), and muck the rest if opponents are known to call down everything on the flop.

It also sounds like you need to adjust your play to the tables. One of the first things I try to find out is what is valuable at this table? What does it take to isolate? Some tables, 4BB will do the trick, others will take 8-10BB.

[Airles™]

I suppose it depends on how many limpers and who those limpers are. If you have a ton of weak-tights or loose passives in a limped pot, wouldn't we want to raise it up here with any decent hand?

[Stacks]

Isolating on limpers is very profitable, and if you are tossing hands like KTs on the BU with 1-2 limpers, then yes you are losing out on some $$$. Hands like Broadways and decent aces are great to isolate on limpers from LP. Likely you are already ahead of their range. You will have position which will allow you to easily either valuetown them when you hit, or pot control when you feel weak.

Hands like suited connectors, small-mid pps, probably perform better to just limp behind others in this situation. With these kind of hands, take 55 for instance, you aren't going to hit the flop hard often enough. THe only flops you are going to feel really comfortable on is if you flop your set. So if you isolate with a hand like 55 on a limper, and he calls, and you miss the flop and he check/calls your cbet, you have very little equity or SD value in most cases.

Also, remember just like everything else in poker it depends on the villains. Villains that like to limp/call, and have a high fold to cbet are ideal to isolate on. They are the type that believes any two cards is profitable to play until you see the flop at least. And they likely play fit/fold postflop. So raise them up, take the flop, and then take the pot. Ez game.

[Outlaw]

Isolating on limpers is very profitable, and if you are tossing hands like KTs on the BU with 1-2 limpers, then yes you are losing out on some $$$. Hands like Broadways and decent aces are great to isolate on limpers from LP. Likely you are already ahead of their range. You will have position which will allow you to easily either valuetown them when you hit, or pot control when you feel weak.

Hands like suited connectors, small-mid pps, probably perform better to just limp behind others in this situation. With these kind of hands, take 55 for instance, you aren't going to hit the flop hard often enough. THe only flops you are going to feel really comfortable on is if you flop your set. So if you isolate with a hand like 55 on a limper, and he calls, and you miss the flop and he check/calls your cbet, you have very little equity or SD value in most cases.

Also, remember just like everything else in poker it depends on the villains. Villains that like to limp/call, and have a high fold to cbet are ideal to isolate on. They are the type that believes any two cards is profitable to play until you see the flop at least. And they likely play fit/fold postflop. So raise them up, take the flop, and then take the pot. Ez game.

Well said.

I'd just like to add that I tend to cbet a little less after raising a limper, even if you hit the flop. This accomplishes three things.. if they miss the flop, they are folding to any decent sized bet anyways. 2. If you miss the flop, you are saving a bit of money if your cbet gets flatted. 3. If you hit the board, you will be more likely to get a street or two of value out of your hand if your opponents range connects a bit too.

Just remember that raising limpers is a winning play because we are taking the lead and that our range is ahead of the limpers going into the flop. These factors=+$.

This is also why you don't want to be a limptard.

[Stacks]

Outlaw, as far as the cbet size goes, it also depends. And I'm not talking the typical "well the board is drawy so you bet pot", or anything like that. It's perfectly fine to change your cbet size with respect to your hand, and the villain you are playing against. If I am against a fish, and feel a cbet is profitable when I don't have a hand, I'm obviously going to cbet the least amount possible that will get the job done. There is really no reason to balance your ranges, or have the same raise/bet size against an individual that WON'T pick up on your tendencies anyways.

So, yeah it's perfectly fine to change your cbet size; however, I don't think always making it smaller is the correct play. As you should always do in poker, evaluate the situation (your hand, their range, the board), determine what your action should be and why (for value, as a bluff, they call with these hands, they fold those hands etc), and the tailor your size to do the job. If their range is weak and you have a strong hand, then you can bet smaller to induce calls from the weaker range (barring draws, etc). If their range is weak, and your hand is weak, there is no need to bloat a pot that if called you aren't going to win.

[Outlaw]

yeah exactly, I meant generally. Say .65 into a 1.00 pot instead of .75. At those stakes we don't really need to mix up our play