Are you a sprinter or a marathon runner?

[Sir Pawnalot]

I have always been a firm believer in playing my A+ game at all times. Playing perfect poker has been my ambition- trying to squeeze out profits in spots where others would easily fold.

However- playing perfect poker requires tremendous focus and mental fatigue sets in after a relatively short time. With training mental stamina will improve, and A game can be sustained for longer.

Mental fatigue was not a problem for me, because I had the luxury of not relying on poker as an income- therefore I could play short sessions (Less than 2 hours). I rarely played more than one table either.

But what about someone who is relying on poker as an income- someone who must play poker 6 hours a day to pay bills?

Here are some options

1) Intervals
A+ game on 1 table 45 min/15 min break
Total of 6 intervals

A/B game on 2-4 tables
45 min/15 min break
Total of 6 intervals

2) Marathon
B game on 4 tables. 4 hours/30 min break
2 sessions

C game on 6-20 tables. 3 hours/30 min

2-3 sessions

At lower stakes our C game may be good enough for winning, but as we rise up in stakes we must play a better game. At the higher stakes even our A+ game may not be good enough.

Hope this will be helpful for those of you who are thinking about making money at poker.

[daven]

But what about someone who is relying on poker as an income- someone who must play poker 6 hours a day to pay bills?

someone relying on poker as an income should not need to play 30hrs a week...

you make an interesting point, some comments though.

You seem to miss the point of multi-tabling. If multi-tabling results in playing significantly less than an A-game, then it shouldn't be done.

Endurance - playing longer does not have to mean playing significantly worse. If i start a session in good state to do so (and I aim to always do this) then I can usually play 2hrs just as well as 45mins, in fact, I probably play 2hrs better than 45mins.

[Sir Pawnalot]

I have played my fair share of multitablers- I have yet to meet someone that I did not pwn hard. No multitablers have ever had an edge on me.

"someone relying on poker as an income should not need to play 30hrs a week... "

That is right. You can play one hour a day on 50 dollar 100 dollar. You missed the premise though- someone who must....

You also have a different definition of A game than I have. For me A+ game means playing my absolute best poker possible. It does not mean beating a certain game for 10 ptbb. A+ game for me means remembering all the action from all the hands- every detail on every street that has been played. It also requires remembering almost every hand you have ever played against villain.

I am borderline autistic/asperger so I may have an edge there.

If the best player in the world- Ivey, plays his D game he would still crush most players in the world. So just because you TAG along and make 5 ptbb does not mean you are playing your A game.

If you do not give away an edge by multitabling- your single table skills may be lacking.

As to your comment on 2 hour sessions being better than 45 min sessions- I agree to a certain extent. We have more information to act upon, and some people need a warmup before they play their best.

Maybe you are a marathon runner?

[kb coolman]

For me A+ game means playing my absolute best poker possible. It does not mean beating a certain game for 10 ptbb. A+ game for me means remembering all the action from all the hands- every detail on every street that has been played. It also requires remembering almost every hand you have ever played against villain.

I am borderline autistic/asperger so I may have an edge there.

Definately a bit of a savant quality that does not apply to most people.

It's not uncommon for me to sit down at one table for an hour and have a win rate of +100BB/100 (it's pretty easy to double up if you can find a donk to pick on). But I don't consider this my 'A' game, because it's like shooting fish in a barrel. My true 'A' game comes out when I'm able to maintain an edge at a table with solid opponents. When I lose my edge, I close the table.

And anyone who is marching up the stakes at 10BB/100 is playing good, solid poker. Making more winning plays that mistakes is playing an 'A' game, IMO.

[Sir Pawnalot]

10BB/100 is pure excellence oc.

My point was just that A game is relative to yourself. Someone who is barely beating the rake while playing their A game, might be a losing player while playing his B game. Others may win when playing their C or even D game.

If someone can play their A game on more than 4 tables for long periods of time- I call them nutshinho.

[Sir Pawnalot]

kb coolman- remind me to not make any 4 am posts again.

I had a really good idea for this thread, but I was too tired to make a clear point. It was supposed to be about balancing quantity and quality in a manner that maximized expected profits.

[kb coolman]

Someone who is barely beating the rake while playing their A game, might be a losing player while playing his B game.

We call these people 'contributors to the poker ecomomy'. And they're always playing higher stakes than they should be, and they don't have an 'A' game.

I'm a sprinter... I play for 90 minutes and take an hour break
then I play for 90 minutes more etc.

[HarleyGuy13]

[quote="Sir Pawnalot"]I have played my fair share of multitablers- I have yet to meet someone that I did not pwn hard. No multitablers have ever had an edge on me.
quote]

Dude you don't really believe your own BS do you??

[Knytestorme]

Dude you don't really believe your own BS do you??

Have you read most of his posts?

Anyway, someone playing poker for a living does not have to play 6 hours a day, and I doubt they even care if they are playing their A game to your definition.

If someone can multi-table 6 tables of 6-max 2/4 for 3 hours a day (@ 70 hands/hr/table) for 4ptbb/100 they will be making roughly (4x4x2x4.2x3) $400 per day, excluding rakeback.

If you're telling me you need more than $400 a day to live on then I'd either love your lifestyle or hate your credit debt, but either way it's painfully clear that most of your assumptions in the OP are flawed and coloured by the fact you don't/can't multitable and don't use PT/HEM to full effect.

[Sir Pawnalot]

I think you haters- I understand why though, have misunderstood my intention here. Playing 6 tables of 6-max 2/4 for 3 hours a day (@ 70 hands/hr/table) may be the most profitable for you. This might be disastrous for a beginner though.

Finding the perfect balance between the number of tables, hours played, number and length of breaks and relative level of opposition is what this post was meant to deal with.

I did not set a standard for what an A game is- you define that yourself, I just suggested that it is relative to your own game- not relative to your edge versus opponents.

I do not use PT- how is that relevant here?

Lastly- I do believe my own BS. Maybe not literally- but I do have extreme confidence in my own game.

[Sir Pawnalot]

Of course my assumptions are flawed. If you understand simple logics you would understand why they never could be right in the first place.

[Sir Pawnalot]

EV- moves can be very profitable.

I have experimented with a lot of strange things in poker. Once I kept stats on "creative bets"- bets like 1.63 or 42.99. That involved calling all those bets- no matter. The same procedure with all-in moves, minbets, overbets and check-raises.

Although these and other experiments did affect my winrate for short periods of time the information gained boosted my winrate dramatically. In addition to help me learn about general tendencies they also challenged me to readjust to new table images.

Next step was experimenting with player styles. I practiced a lot of LAG and maniac. These were playing styles I was not too familiar with. In the past I played mostly very tight/ very aggressive on tables with high vpip and big pots. Now I could get more practice against standard TAGs and train on tables with low vpip/medium pots.

An experiment about the issues in this thread- quantity/qua
lity would have been very interesting...and profitable.

[HarleyGuy13]

Sir I was not hating on you and I am sorry if I came across that way. I just your statement about NEVER BEING PWNED by a mult-tabler was a little nieve to say the least. Being humble is something that will come with maturity I guess.
Good luck with your game.

[Sir Pawnalot]

Harley-

You need to remember that I played on Merge. There is hardly no one there who has even heard about PT (does not work there either). With only a handful of good players- it was easy to avoid those who I felt were better than me. If I felt uncomfortable against a player I would sit out and construct what I considered the perfect counter strategy.

Boosting my bankroll 135 times my deposit playing very sporadically for a year gave me a lot of confidence. It may be false confidence, but I think I play better when I have a psychological edge- not only an edge in skill.

Lately I have been experimenting with thrash talk on tables, and I see how my posts are colored by that. My last comments on the table include shit like this:
- "I am probably the best player you have ever met"
- "If you wanna learn to play poker like me, come and join flopturnriver."
- "Instead of donating your chips on the table, I can offer you some training for 100 dollar /hour"
- I AM SAFTOGBRUS!

Although I have ethical dilemmas regarding thrash talk, I have found that it tilts people one of two ways- 1)They wanna outplay you 2) They get afraid (wait for good hands).

No need for that cockiness here on FTR- I agree with that. Also no need to hide ones confidence either.

I am a sprinter, but want to start experimenting with playing more tables and more hours.

[HarleyGuy13]

Harley-

You need to remember that I played on Merge. There is hardly no one there who has even heard about PT (does not work there either). With only a handful of good players- it was easy to avoid those who I felt were better than me. If I felt uncomfortable against a player I would sit out and construct what I considered the perfect counter strategy.

Boosting my bankroll 135 times my deposit playing very sporadically for a year gave me a lot of confidence. It may be false confidence, but I think I play better when I have a psychological edge- not only an edge in skill.

Lately I have been experimenting with thrash talk on tables, and I see how my posts are colored by that. My last comments on the table include shit like this:
- "I am probably the best player you have ever met"
- "If you wanna learn to play poker like me, come and join flopturnriver."
- "Instead of donating your chips on the table, I can offer you some training for 100 dollar /hour"
- I AM SAFTOGBRUS!

Although I have ethical dilemmas regarding thrash talk, I have found that it tilts people one of two ways- 1)They wanna outplay you 2) They get afraid (wait for good hands).

No need for that cockiness here on FTR- I agree with that. Also no need to hide ones confidence either.

I am a sprinter, but want to start experimenting with playing more tables and more hours.

Dude you should be telling them you learned everything from that guy on YOUTUBE who teaches "How to induce mis-clicks and How to play 5 gappers" don't drive them to the watering hole but to the illiusion!
anyhow buddy it's all good my friend! Sounds like what you are doing is working and that really is what counts. Lets just all keep improving. Somebody told me the other day if I was a member of FTR then I was not a fish but maybe a baby shark in training! Hell in my case maybe just sharksperm!!

[Sir Pawnalot]

I usually never talk strategy with players on a table- especially not fish.

But it was actually pretty funny when I made the FTR comment. I tried some microstakes fullring to see if my micro skills was any good.

I had played for 10 minutes maybe, and absolutely crushing the table with crazy turn aggression. They were typical fish- called a lot preflop and flop, folded to aggression on turn. Therefore I build huge pots with every single hand (almost) and take it down on turn.

Oc, I was not playing seriously- but I gained 3 buyins by BLUFFING (??????) in a micro game in just ten minutes!

Funny part of the story is that people on the table actually thanked me.

Octopussies eat sharks...

[daven]

- "If you wanna learn to play poker like me, come and join flopturnriver.".

don't ever do this, are you stupid or something?
seriously, heard the term tank-tapping?

[Sir Pawnalot]

I played like a retard and suggested they learn to play like me...