50nl squeezed pot maybe I am a station

[yourfather]

CO had called my 3 bet earlier and c/f sorta wet middling flop. Button is kinda bluffy and stationy too and I think he's squeezing a wide range here.

Is preflop calling bad here?

I really want to call turn. I think he has 77/Axs/complete bluffs enough to call maybe or am I just hoping here?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $111.60
Hero (UTG): $68.65
MP: $160.45
CO: $50
BTN: $100
SB: $150.45

Pre-Flop: 8 8 dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, BTN raises to $9, 2 folds, Hero calls $7, MP folds, CO calls $7

Flop: ($29.75) 6 9 4 (3 Players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($29.75) 5 (3 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets $41 and is All-In, BTN folds, Hero?

[nutsinho]

FOLD PREFLOP

[bode]

i would rather 3bet bluff here than call pre.

[Silly String]

Nut's responses sure can kill a thread. In case you're still wondering I'll respond too. I think fold > 4-bet > call.
If the BU is really squeezing THAT light then it could be a 4bet, but I'd like a better read than this. Against that large 3bet OOP, calling is your worst choice and gets WORSER the wider you think his range is.

Damn it, beat by the bode-ist one.

[yourfather]

I was thinking everyone would say fold. My thoughts were that 88 was good enough against his squeeze range that I didn't want to turn it into a bluff.

Also we are nearly 140 bb deep effectively and I think CO would usually fold here.

[jackvance]

Don't we have atleast set odds 140bb deep?

[griffey24]

I agree with folding preflop. Mostly because you opened UTG so people's flatting ranges against an UTG open are MUCH stronger. It's definitely possible that MP flatted something reasonably decent (TT+) and now that you flat, he feels like jamming to take the dead money.

[Silly String]

If you think he's squeezing wide enough to play back at him then you are not turning your hand into a bluff, but rather 4betting for value.

Set odds are only good if we know he's stacking off often enough to profit. Yourfather indicated that his squeezing range is wide so he's not stacking off enough for us to play a big pot OOP w/ a marginal hand in the hopes of hitting an 8:1 set.

[jackvance]

Ok I am still quite bad in reasoning about 3bets, so please correct my mistakes:

A 3bet range, even if it's wide, is still somewhat skewed towards strong hands, which is what makes it hard to play against (for me). If we fold 88 (a decent hand) here then that means we're folding a large part of our range (which seems bad) but if we 4bet here he can play pretty perfectly against us and dump all of his trash and continue with the range that has us beat.

[frosst]

Ok I am still quite bad in reasoning about 3bets, so please correct my mistakes:

A 3bet range, even if it's wide, is still somewhat skewed towards strong hands, which is what makes it hard to play against (for me). If we fold 88 (a decent hand) here then that means we're folding a large part of our range (which seems bad) but if we 4bet here he can play pretty perfectly against us and dump all of his trash and continue with the range that has us beat.

88 isnt a decent hand oop against a 3bet at these stakes, especially against a 3bet to an utg raiser. villian is representing a small to very small range (depending on how bluffy/stationy opp is), which is why we should generally fold. but in this situation, hero thinks 88 are the best hand, meaning villian has more trash hands than hands that beat us. so 4 betting will induce more folds than calls, or more calls with worse hands than hands that beat us.