AA river muck

[asdpikas]

UTG+1 is an unknown factor
CO is a reg 27/20/2

1/2 Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero ($39.50)
UTG 1 ($35.84)
CO ($47.00)
BTN ($41.00)
SB ($78.27)
BB ($47.00)

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 6 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises, UTG 1 calls, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero 4-bets, UTG 1 calls, CO calls

Flop: (13.5 SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG 1 calls, CO calls

Turn: (8.2 BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG 1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG 1 calls

River: (14.2 BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG 1 bets, CO raises, Hero folds, UTG 1 calls

Final Pot: 18.2 BB

[bigspenda73]

def. 3bet the turn to shut UTG+1 out

[DrivingDog]

I 3bet the turn mainly for value b/c we have more than our share of equity in this pot. CO is soooo likely to have an overpair and UTG+1 could have anything from a FD to 8x to 4x to overcards. Occasionally UTG+1 is hanging around with a hand like A7 or A6 as well (which would be about the only hands worth trying to shut out on the turn). If you 3bet, any drawing hand of UTG will be charged extra to see the river.

As played, I have a hard time folding this river. I still think CO almost always has an overpair here and UTG+1's donk could be just about anything - e.g., he might think a lead with one pair is safe because of the scary board, or he might just be making a silly bluff. I probably call the raise and puke-fold if it's 3bet by UTG+1.

[KoRnholio]

I don't fold this as played. If it had been the preflop raisor that bet and then the chaser suddenly came alive with a raise, then I could see a fold. But CO has TT+ here way too often, and sees no strength in that river donk bet.

[Chopper]

donkey alert: but, were we trying to bet/3bet an aggressive CO player on this flop? i figure he fires for sure if we check it to him, and by c/r'ing him, we assure UTG+1 is calling two cold from the git-go.

if we lead flop, can we not c/r turn now? if CO is truly aggressive and has a likely overpair, he would certainly fire...again, we charge UTG+1 to draw.

was our read that CO was aggressive enough that he will overuse his position with his ego allowing us to 3bet?

people scoff at my c/r ideas, rightfully so, but i think it lends balance to the times i do it with draws, too, for pot building...which is why i like it on the flop. it looks like AKs is a big part of what we hold, when we smoke that.

however, i am not a big fan of calling this river, either. i probably do, but i dont like it. UTG+1, imo, spiked something he liked and CO raised to cut us out. i'm not worried about CO, but i am worried that UTG+1 would 3bet. of course, i kick myself when he doesnt.

i just never like 4-card boards, no matter how unlikely they look. and, it could be a set that "waits for river to raise" (one of my most common notes).

i hope i'm not being a complete "ass" (see the pun? lol) here. but, i figure y'all will set me straight if i am.

[bigspenda73]

c/r is just really unnecessary FPS, we dont want the turn checking through with the flop board texture.

[Chopper]

c/r is just really unnecessary FPS, we dont want the turn checking through with the flop board texture.

so, we dont even see any merit to it on the flop, either? not even for balance since we like to treat our bigger draws the same way? if not, its cool. i just wanted to double check. thnks.

[bigspenda73]

we have the initiative from PF, why would we be c/r'ing draws either?

[Chopper]

combo draws (OESF or overs+fd), i dont see why we wouldnt. we have great equity against a 27/20 that probably 3bets pf wide in position at a 6max table.

but also, doesnt it go hand in hand? balancing big hands that you want to c/r with draws that figure to come in often enough, and vice versa?

again, this may all go out the window if we feel that CO will raise our flop leads and we can 3bet. but, all we got was 27/20. that could also be a TAGnit we have good FE over when he whiffs and we scare him with a c/r.

[bigspenda73]

dude I'm never c/r'ing anything after I 4bet PF.

[KoRnholio]

I agree that going for a c/r after 4betting preflop isn't very good. Our opponent probably figures us for TT+/AK after we cap. If we lead out it gives him no new info.

If we go for a c/r he will interpret it (correctly) as the higher part of our range that isn't afraid of giving free cards (ie, QQ+).

[Chopper]

ok. i'll drop it. the "after 4betting" part makes perfect sense.

[socal1111]

3bet turn. As played, call river.