beginner seekin some advice on bankroll management

[Xptboy2]

Beware of the long post, and I thank anyone in advance who bothers to reply, I promise to remember your username and see if I may ever be of any use to you guys who reply in the future (since I assure you, I will stay active on these boards)

hey, I'm xptboy and this is my first post, I am 18 living well-off with my parents (who are rich and pay fo everything), I have no salary and got 600 euros in my bank account (pretty much nothing), I get 200 euros per month as allowance from my parents

anyways, I'm new to poker and would really like to improve and make some kind of profit out of it. When I say i'm new though, I mean extremely new, I didn't know the rules and never played any card games until this weekend... (I actually started because I was a pro-gamer but gaming didn't get me money and I know of some pro-gamers who became really rich off poker, so I think that with their mentality I can get somewhere)

Anyways, I have an account on pokerstars and registerred with 50 dollars that my mom gave me as a present, I actually managed to double that in one day playing micro stakes only, so the next day I felt reall confident and played on a higher stake table and ended up losing all my money... Soo000ooo, I convinced my mom to give me 50 dollars and promised her this time I won't go broke

So, basically today I've made myself some rules (the following is a copy paste from MS word)

I will join a poker table as long as
- it is not too loose
- there are more than 4 players
- I will buy in with 5% of my bankroll and that 5% is less than half the max buy-in
- a lot of players limp in and not many players make big bets
- I know which type of players the players are
- I can see a fish


I will leave a poker table as soon as
- the table becomes very loose
- I lose over half my chips in an important hand
- I don’t know who the weak players of the table are anymore
- All the weak players have left
- over 1/3 of the table are maniacs
- any given pot accounts for more than 10% of my bankroll


with those rules which are personalized to my settings, I now have a 50.26 bankroll which is a 0.26 increase in about 5 hours (I lost some, I won some)


I guess my point is to ask you guys whether what I am doing with this is correct. I'm actually thinking of adding some money to stars to try and play at some higher stakes. Right now I'm playing at 0.01/0.02 NL tables and I find them extremely time-consuming to see any profit especially since everyone is so tight even on these tables... I'm wonderring if adding 100 dollars so that I could play on the 0.02/0.05 safely is gonna be worth it for a dedicated newbie to poker because at the rate I'm going I think I'm gonna have to play at least a month before I can move to 0.02/0.05 and even then, I wouldn't expect my bankroll to be over 100.

Finally, my short-term intentions are to stay at my micro stakes and keep playing by my personal rules no matter what until the end of february and see how it goes from there. During that time, I intend on playing 3 hours daily sessions with around 1 hour extra reading, watching and digesting poker information on average. (on weekdays 2 hour daily but since on weekends I got lots of freetime it will prolly augment the average by quite a lot).

My long-term intentions are to make 600 dollars from stars and then create another account on full tilt with 600 dollars from my own bank account (that way I can play with equal stacks on both sites) and then move on from there).

Do you guys think I've got it all sorted out right, do you think I'm completely missing something, do you just have some advice for me? whatever it is, if you botherred to read this, please help me out n I guarantee you won't regret it

[Sup3rM4N]

Hi and welcome to FTR!

One thing I can relate with you is being a "pro gamer". Well I wasn't really a pro (meaning professional or a fulltime player) but I did win couple of thousands of dollars from the games I did play as a hobby and then found online poker.

I think you are jumping the gun here and thinking about profits too early. You said you learned the game this weekend right? I would suggest you read articles, follow a good bankroll management and focus on improving your play rather than thinking about profits. On the surface it looks pretty simple but as you will soon find out, there is so much more to learn. If you could run break even or with a little bit of profit for awhile while improving your game and thinking, I would consider that a success. BR management would be the most important thing on this though. Keep playing and trying to learn the game better and when you manage to get enough $ for the next level and are comfortable, then move up. You do not want to rush things.

Good luck to ya. =)

[Hal]

Hi mate,

I've been in a similar boat grinding out micro stakes on Stars on and off for quite a while now. There is a lot of very very loose games at $2 NL (0.01-0.02 blinds) - in fact - I'm not sure I ever see more than a table or two with <30% players seeing the pot - esp in prime time. You'll regularly see 40-60% in! (I'm assuming you're looking at full ring - don't know much about 6-max)

Just a little bit surprised by your thinking these tables are tight. What I find is there are generally 1-2 tight players per table - and these guys generally seem to slowly make money while all the other looser players build and lose buyins quickly.

Obviously there are some parts of playing poker you can learn well at these stakes (playing quality hands, position, etc) but it really isn't the arena to try learning bluffing, c-betting etc.. there are so many ppl who will just call every hand you raise..

Keep in mind also, that leaving a table because it gets "loose" isn't nesc going to make you better off - if you're learning to only play quality hands - then the looser the other players - the more often they'll pay you off when they go all in to you good hands with their second best hands - believe me - this happens a lot!!!

As for buy ins - the standard buy in is 100xBB - IE - $2 for 0.01-0.02 games and so on. There may be reasons to buy in for more than this but I don't see this as being the normal thing to do - esp when you're learning and could stack off by miss reading the board

Just a few hints for Stars: Make sure you turn on 4 colour decks + show bet amounts - def makes life easier

Keep patient and make sure you're profitable over a few months before thinking of moving up!!

[ksuno1stunner]

How much have you read on poker?

[Xptboy2]

thx for your replies guys

so far I haven't actually read that much, I've only watched around 5 videos and read 15 articles but I actually think that's not bad considerring I started out on sunday...

Also the reason I prefer to play kinda tight is because pIay on full ring games (9 player max) and the minimum percentile of plyr/flop on stars never goes under 30 anyway (still dunno whether that's considerred tight universally)

I prefer playing on the tighter tables because normally on the looser tables I get anxious/curious and start wonderring why the other people see the flop so often so sometimes I try and join in with mediocre hands and actuall get a good flop so I raise but the other guys have draw cards and end up taking a huge pot... so far being a more loose player has only made me lose buy-ins whilst being rather tight agressive has got me pretty much breaking even...

I've also noticed in many articles to pick the loose tables but still am not sure why... is it just the general etiquette or have I just coincidentally been reading the wrong articles and watching the wrong videos?


Also, yeah I noticed that I shouldn't rush anything when I lost my first deposit lol so now I'm going extra slow...

Anyways, for today i'm actually planning on just digesting a bunch of information since I'm tryin to step my game up. oh and btw, that beginners digest at the top of the table is EXTREMELY helpful!

[XTR1000]

Didnt read your entire post, but PLEASE look for loose tables and avoid tight ones and do not play shortstacked below 200NL.

[Xptboy2]

Didnt read your entire post, but PLEASE look for loose tables and avoid tight ones and do not play shortstacked below 200NL.

every article I read and every person tells me this but could someone please give some kind of explanation for this?

I mean I feel like if I play on too loose tables, yeah sure I might win some big pots but since i'm so inexperienced I'll prolly lose more big pots whilst if I play tight then normally my decisions are generally correct and the risk to lose my buy-inis nowhere near as much.

I can understand your advice on not playing short-stacked under 200 NL though, thx for confirming that, but could someone explain this loose table thing?

BTW, at stars on micro stakes the lowest plyr/flop percentage is around 30 and the highest is around 60, anything above or under that percentile are big exceptions and I like playing at a table with around 35% plyrs/flop and a middle sized pot at full ring tables at NL. I consider 35% quite more tight since at stars that's what the tables are like, am I correct in assumig that this is tight or is it in fact kinda loose????

[ksuno1stunner]

Usually, it's advised that at a loose table, you play tighter to take advantage of other players going in with weaker holdings, and at tight tables, you play looser to take advantage of fold equity. If you get bored, add another table.

Also, buy Pokertracker.

[Sup3rM4N]

As stated earlier, loose tables are good for playing tight (which you said you are trying to do) and tight tables are good for playing loose. Just because a lot of players are going to the flop does not mean that you should be going as well with mediocre to borderline hands. Just wait for a good hand, hit, and bet-bet-bet, no need to get cute and check-raise or anything at your level. This is the most basic and easiest style of play which works great at the micro stakes.

If you get bored, add another table but do not go over two tables. If you do, you will be learning to multitable better instead of playing poker better.

I would not recommend getting PokerTracker just yet. It would only be helpful for you right now because it will keep track of your wins and losses but frankly, I doubt you know the game well enough for it to improve your game based on the stats you receive from it. In addition, spending $50 on a poker software when your BR is $50 seems ridiculous. I would wait until your BR reaches higher and then use some money from your BR to purchase that software. PT is essential though to playing cash games, just not right now for you.

[shazbox]

...

[Xptboy2]

on pokertracker.... I actually managed to download it for free, don't know how but I did and it seems to be working alright and I also downloaded gametime+ since the acehud site was unavailable, but dunno how to use gametime+, the tables fail to show up...

Played 2.5 hours today on up to 3 tables and lost 1.5 dollars which I don't consider too bad, I actually found it much easier on 2 tables though so I think that for now, I'm gonna stick to 2 tables since I can actually spot which type of people are where they are, also you're right that 3 tables doesn't really help me improve at my poker :/...

thanks for explaining that I should be playing tighter at loose tables and looser at tight tables btw, that kinda helped me I guess... So far I've been playing around the same at any table I sit at

[GatorJH]

there has been some good advice above so let me reiterate it and focus on a couple of the key points

1) Don't worry about profit right now. Let me say that again - Don't worry about profit right now. Although the basics of Texas Hold-em make it very easy to learn how to play there are a LOT of intricasies that can make the difference between losing, breaking even and winning. A GREAT example is your questioning of why sitting at a loose table is better than a tight one.

Learning things like position, pot odds, what makes your hands vulnerable, when to push hard versus when to slow down, etc. are all things that a successful poker player knows intrinsically.

Take some time to read, read, read and read some more then apply what you are reading to the tables. If you are playing micro stakes you can try these things out wtih a MUCH smaller risk to your bankroll.

TRUST me when I say you will start to know when your game is solid enough to worry about profit instead of just learning the game.

2) Learn bankroll management - You have mentioned that your family is pretty well off, however you should STILL practice solid bankroll management. Poker is gambling - short and simple - and anyone who doesn't practice bankroll management because "I can just deposit more if I go busto" is on a slippery slope to the poor house. If you treat your depositied bankroll like it is the last money that you can put in it will help you mantain your ability to focus on your game.

3) Why play on a loose table if you are a tight player? This was answered above as well, but let me further explain. Many loose players (ESPECIALLY at the micro stakes level) aren't watching closely enough to know that you haven't played a hand in the last 4 orbits.

Therefore, when you DO pick up a big hand or make a big hand on the flop it will be MUCH eaiser to extract chips from someone who thinks their bottom pair is gold.

On the other hand, at a tight table you will get MUCH less action on your hands and in some cases the action you do get is because they have a better hand than even you do (their set versus your two pair as an example).

Finally, welcome to FTR. As I said try to do a LOT of reading, play some hands and if you have particular hands that you wonder if you played the right way feel free to post them. I am quite confident that you will get some great advice here.

[Xptboy2]

GatorJH your reply was really helpful thanks, anyway I quit trying to multitable even 2 tables, I think I need to become a soid 1 table player before I can even attempt to move to two tables let alone multitabling...

Here's a little more specific question on bankroll though (I still got 50 dollars in my poker account btw). Ever since I decided to quit experimenting wth two-tabling I find myself making a lot more money, so I decided to move up from 0.01/0.02 to 0.05/0.10 with a buy-in of 3 which is basically only a 0.5 raise in buy-in, so far I've only played two 1hr sessions but together I ended up winning 10dollars which I consider really good. Do you think I'm playing at tables which have too big blinds for me or is my change logical?

[karnouk]

Hi Xptboyz.

Dont play over your bankroll. Playing 0.05/0.10 with a 50$ bankroll IS over your bankroll.

Usually at th0se tables you can buy in for 10$ max. If you read some articles on the net, you ll see that a good rule is to have at least 30 MAXIMUM buy ins. It means that you should have 300 dollars to play 0.05/0.10.

Believe me, I made the same mistakes when I started and I ended up losing my initial investments. A friend of mine is starting playing and I know it is really hard for people who havent lost money yet to believe in good bankroll management. It is so attractive to feel that you can win so much.

It will be frustrating to play micro stakes, but if you stick yo it and study at the same time, one day you ll see much improvement.

It all depends on how much you are willing to put more money.

If 50$ is the last thing you wanna ask your mum, then dont play 0.05/0.10.

Also, it is wrong to think that it will be easier to make money if you play at higher stakes. On stars, 0.01/0.02 are the easiest NL cash games you can play at. If you dont beat these stakes, why would you beat the 0.05/0.10?


Good luck, and dont hesitate to post hands.

[Pelion]

I dont think its a bad idea to buy in half stacked if you have literally just learned the rules. No matter how much you read you are probably going to start off a losing player until you get at least a week or two of experience (exp to you) so you may as well limit it while you get the hang of how frequent certain types of hands are and how likely it is people have them etc.

Having said that, your medium term plan should be to buy in for 100 big blinds ($2 at a 1c/2c blind table) at a level where you have at least 20 buyins. If you start at the $2 tables you will have 25 buyins. That should be enough for you to lose a bit before you figure out how to at least break even at micro stakes and still have a reasonable bankroll once you've worked it out (leveled up).

Read through everything in the stickies, especially the stuff in the beginners digest. Start thinking about where the money comes from in this game and you will realise why you don't want to be hunting out tables full of tight players. Good luck and have fun.