Move up?

[Flarb89]

So anyway, about 2 months ago, my friend transferred me 6$ to play in a 5$ SNG and see if I could do something with it. I won the SNG and have grinded my total cash amount at .01/.02$ to 95$ playing off and on occasionally until recently where I got really serious about building a roll.

I have read everything there is to know up and down. I know about bankroll management, and I feel I'm playing the best way I can at these stakes (super nit). It's working, but I feel like it's going so slow. The .02/.05$ games have a max buyin of 10$, just like the .05/.10$ games.

I'm rolled for .02/.05$, and I was wondering if maybe I should just go straight to .05/.10$? I have read that the play is the same up until 100$NL and I play in a way where losses are minimal (I will change my play when the villains change theirs). If I were to hit a bad streak of cards to break me, it would have to be a very bad run. What do you guys think?

[silu73]

Its not about the style or skill level of play just the variance your BR can sustain without going broke. If you play 6-max I would suggest 20-30 buy-ins before moving up i.e. $500 BR for $25NL

[Anosmic]

Hi Flar,

Nice to see a new face and asking the right question.

As silu_nz says, the BR cushion is to handle variance that comes with poker, you want to be able to survive a downswing where you play good poker but the luck kills.

And trust me when I say you don't know what this really means. There are top players who have gone 100,000 hands + without winning (or even losing); I've barely played 100k hands in total...

If I understand you right you've got around $100 which is 20 buy ins of $5. You will minimise your risk by buying in for $5 at the $0.02/$0.05 tables.

If you're finding it's going too slow then why not multi-table? Add a second, or third table or fourth until you can play winning poker like that.

If you're reasonably confident that you're better than a level then winning 5ptbb/100 is not unrealistic which means it'll take you 20,000 hands to double up 20 buy-ins; and if that sounds like a lot of hands then you're not yet on board with what grinding is.

There's nothing wrong with taking the odd risk, but you have to be reasonably smart about it.
I mean you could, say, play $5 buy ins for a bit and if you make $20 (so now you're $120) you make one of your tabels a $10 ($0.10bb) table, but if you lose the $20, you move back down and try again, if you make it to $140 you add a second and so on until you're 4-tabling the higher limit.

You many find it all goes great, in which case good luck to you. But most people don't have it that easy and prepare yourself for it now: it's going to take a loooot of hands to get where you want to go (if you want to get up past $100NL) so you may as well get in the habit of grinding now.

When you hear people say that there's no difference between $2NL and $100NL they're either wrong (happens), looking at it from a mid-stakes+ perspective (in which case the large differences seem relatively small) or they're saying something more subtle:

A good game plan that wins at $2NL will win at $100NL. But take a look at the number of low-stakes players trying to break into/past $100NL and you'll see a lot of struggle. Because your leaks get exposed more and more as you move up stakes. A winning $2NL style may not win at $10NL, let alone $100NL.

It sounds like you've already committed yourself to grinding your way up. So good luck, keep focused and try to remove impatience and focus on improving your skills so that when your BR grows you're ready to use it.

[Pythonic]

Excellent reply Anosmic.

[pokerroomace]

Hi Flar,
And trust me when I say you don't know what this really means. There are top players who have gone 100,000 hands + without winning (or even losing); I've barely played 100k hands in total...

really?
maybe they're not top players?
or maybe they're not top players in the games that they are playing.

can a better player really not turn a profit after 100k hands?

[sejje]

maybe they're not top players?

I don't consider myself a top player. And if I was even after 100K hands, I certainly wouldn't even BEGIN to think so.

Clearly they're not top players at the chosen limit or game.


The point is this: variance is a sick, sick thing. It can decimate your 'roll.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with playing a 10NL game with 100 bucks. But if you lose $10 or $20, it's time to drop back a limit.

[Chopper]

welcome flair,

i did the same as you awhile back, and moved to 100 NL w/ the roll for it. but, i also "cheated" a bit. i "took shots" at the higher level when i felt confident in myself. if i didnt feel overmatched, i took more frequent shots. however, i was never afraid to move back down, either.

when you get to 10 buy-ins (dont know above 100 NL), if you feel you can earn it back rather quickly, take the shot. if you multi-table, open a couple at your current level (less than usual, as you will be concentrating more on the new level), and open ONE at the higher level. nothing ventured, nothing gained. but dont be stupid about it. very few can honestly say they didnt "try a level out" before moving up permanently.

went to 10NL with $75. went to 25NL with $200. went to 50NL with around $500. went to 100NL with over $1000. point is, i started "testing the waters." i didnt move up full time until i was rolled for it. ~20+ buy-ins for FR games, imo.

however, i dont play very high (for me) anymore. i just enjoy playing "looser" down in the trenches...for now. i'm not looking to make a couple hundy a month anymore. just looking to pass the time.

i was more serious when the bonuses would pad my losses, which was not needed, but helped me move up a lot quicker. just gave me more confidence.

hope that helps.

[Flarb89]

Thanks for all the reply's guys! Really helpful. I played .02/.05$ for most of the day today (Friday) and I am pleased to say i turned that 95$ into 140$ at which point I went to test the 10$NL waters and doubled on the table I went to.

I can honestly say I did notice a difference between 2$NL 5$NL and 10$NL, more then I expected. At 5$NL I found it alot harder to get all in with my kings/aces preflop then at 2$NL, but thats the only thing I really noticed, while at 10$NL it felt more like I was actually playing poker, rather then sitting back and waiting for hands. It was a great feeling stealing the blinds, and making accurate reads because people dont call 5xBB with air.

Thanks again, you guys are great.

[Chopper]

careful with what you assume at 10. yes, there is a thought in their heads when you raise 5X, but you will still find a lot more people that will still call with crap. watch who is tight and who is loose, and pin your ranges accordingly.

for instance, you notice that a certain player doesnt play much, and he all of a sudden calls your 5X raise oop. you can safely assume you are not getting called by 96s. now assume you are against a villain who calls every raise you throw out there...god bless him . you can no longer throw out sc's and gappers, or maybe AXo.

in some time, you will find a ton of both at 10. when you get to 50, there are far fewer of the latter. i guess what i am saying is while you may notice that 10 is more like poker, it truly still is no fold em, hold em.

stay tight and dont bluff with air. and push your good hands. you WILL get paid off.

[sejje]

I can honestly say I did notice a difference between 2$NL 5$NL and 10$NL, more then I expected... It was a great feeling stealing the blinds, and making accurate reads because people dont call 5xBB with air.

I'd get my money out of that site as quick as I could. Thinking 10NL players aren't worth the trouble. There's plenty of non-thinking 10NL players at absolute, and probably lots of other sites.

Also, I wouldn't steal blinds at .05/.1. I don't think you can do it profitably without good starting hands.

Anyway, congrats on the win, and GL moving up.