Crazy TPTK Hand

[greenOak]

Okay I had a solid read on renaddel that he was consistently min-betting/raising monster hands so I was pretty sure I had him beat. Anyways, I have basically no info on the cold caller. Whats youre play here?

** Game ID 882010391 starting - 2006-08-02 19:35:37
** Gleem Beam [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- poker-fun sitting in seat 1 with $7.75
- JanusHanscky sitting in seat 2 with $8.80
- thermometer sitting in seat 3 with $8.30
- greenOak sitting in seat 4 with $9.55
- aspire3500 sitting in seat 5 with $6.33 [Dealer]
- JDeathWish sitting in seat 6 with $7.75
- renaddel sitting in seat 7 with $5.49
- Charlie9 sitting in seat 8 with $3.35
- Tannnas sitting in seat 9 with $9.99
- bkl555 sitting in seat 10 with $7.90

JDeathWish posted the small blind - $0.05
renaddel posted the big blind - $0.10
Tannnas posted to play - $0.10

** Dealing card to greenOak: Ace of Diamonds, Queen of Diamonds
Charlie9 folded
Tannnas checked
bkl555 called - $0.10
poker-fun called - $0.10
JanusHanscky folded
thermometer folded
greenOak raised - $0.50
aspire3500 folded
JDeathWish called - $0.50
renaddel called - $0.50
Tannnas called - $0.50
bkl555 folded
poker-fun folded

** Dealing the flop: 9 of Clubs, 4 of Spades, Queen of Hearts
JDeathWish bet - $0.10
renaddel raised - $2.00
Tannnas called - $2.00
greenOak?

[givememyleg]

Tannnas has TJ.

[dsmrolla06]

I dont know how crazy this is, but you need to reraise here to find out where you stand. I probly reraise to 6.00.

[bair]

I dont know how crazy this is, but you need to reraise here to find out where you stand. I probly reraise to 6.00.

whats the point in that? that leaves him with $3 behind...its either push or fold here.

[dsmrolla06]

i guess your right, i overlooked how much money he had left. With this hand i would be rooting for a call from one of the players since your surely ahead.

[invizyn]

I wouldn't say we're surely ahead..

Let's look at the action. greenOak raised 5xBB preflop, and three people called behind him.

So on the flop. JDeathWish leads out with a weak .10 bet into a ~2.00 pot. Then renaddel raises to 2.00, and Tammas smooth calls.

Jdeath could either be inducing a raise with the really really tiny bet, or is just a fish.. we're not really sure. Alarms should start with renaddel raises the pot, and then Tammas smooth calls. We're more worried about Tammas: what hand would call a pot-sized bet? I'm guessing a set.

Considering the action, and with a raiser still to act, AQ isn't looking too good.

[andy-akb]

I dont know how crazy this is, but you need to reraise here to find out where you stand. I probly reraise to 6.00.

There was a raise preflop made by us, 3 people called. We flop TPTK, somebody donks into us, there is a PSR and then a call before the action even gets to us and the person who lead into us on the flop still has left to act. Its obvious where we stand, we are behind and should fold without reads.

[IowaSkinsFan]

i raise to 6 because you are putting the rest in anyway.

[Irisheyes]

All in bitches!!!

[andy-akb]

i raise to 6 because you are putting the rest in anyway.

Why not just push then? If we are raising it should clearly be for a push, anything less just doesnt make sense.

Say this hand was posted and instead of $0.5/.10 the stakes for $0.5/1, would we be getting the same responses? Yes, the typical player at these stakes is horrible, but giving this action and only a read on one player [how long had you been playing with him to get this read?] Im a folding this and not thinking twice about it, we have TPQK. Ill pay attention to the hand and see what they show down, because they are most likely getting to the showdown and take notes on that and use those for later in the session. We have only invested 5BBs and now are putting our entire stack at risk without that great of reads, a lot of action before us, the original better still to act, and a marginal hand. If they are bad enough to do this with a hand we beat, then we will get their money soon enough.

[greenOak]

i raise to 6 because you are putting the rest in anyway.

Why not just push then? If we are raising it should clearly be for a push, anything less just doesnt make sense.

Say this hand was posted and instead of $0.5/.10 the stakes for $0.5/1, would we be getting the same responses? Yes, the typical player at these stakes is horrible, but giving this action and only a read on one player [how long had you been playing with him to get this read?] Im a folding this and not thinking twice about it, we have TPQK. Ill pay attention to the hand and see what they show down, because they are most likely getting to the showdown and take notes on that and use those for later in the session. We have only invested 5BBs and now are putting our entire stack at risk without that great of reads, a lot of action before us, the original better still to act, and a marginal hand. If they are bad enough to do this with a hand we beat, then we will get their money soon enough.

Read on the guy was rock solid. I had played with him in a couple of my sessions and whenever he had a hand he would be betting 0.10/0.20 into $1-2 pots until the river. I was 90% sure I was ahead of him given his raise. MAYBE he has AQ also.

[andy-akb]

Read on the guy was rock solid. I had played with him in a couple of my sessions and whenever he had a hand he would be betting 0.10/0.20 into $1-2 pots until the river. I was 90% sure I was ahead of him given his raise. MAYBE he has AQ also.

Alright, and if it were HU against him then I would call and let him hang himself or simply push, but this isnt the case. There is a donk lead on this flop which typically means a few things:
1. He has absolutely nothing
2. He has a draw and wants the next card cheap
or
3. He has a monster

He still has yet to act after the raise, so we dont know what ot think of that, there is another unknown that has already called showing some strength. I dont hate a push here, but with reads on only one player I would rather wait for a better spot. In a cash game we shouldnt pass up +EV spots unless we know doing so will cause us to get better spots in the future. Here if this is +EV I dont think it is going to be by a lot, and against a lot of players this isnt +EV. Without reads I fold this until I know more about these players. Again, if they are bad enough to do this with a hand we beat we will get there money eventually.

[greenOak]

I know if I was heads up against this guy I would push AI here 100% of the time but I had no clue what to do after that guy called that $2 raise. I actually wasn't worried too much about the original raiser as much as the the cold caller in this hand. I thought about this for a long time before I pushed all in. The original raiser folded, rennadel reluctantly called with QJ, and Tannanas called with 44 for bottom set. Luckily though I hit running nines to split the pot.

[TLR]

I would fold, with this much action TPTK is not good, someone has probably a set and maybe 2 pair

[andy-akb]

I know if I was heads up against this guy I would push AI here 100% of the time but I had no clue what to do after that guy called that $2 raise. I actually wasn't worried too much about the original raiser as much as the the cold caller in this hand. I thought about this for a long time before I pushed all in. The original raiser folded, rennadel reluctantly called with QJ, and Tannanas called with 44 for bottom set. Luckily though I hit running nines to split the pot.

Right I agree that I wouldnt be worried about the person you had a read on and I wouldnt be as worried about the donk leader so I agree with you that yes, you should be most worried about the smooth caller. My main point was that there was too much unknown about the situation and your hand isnt very strong in general which is why you should fold.