AA in a four way pot

[JCMoney]

so yeah... another situation where i wasnt sure about what to do.

i am BB with a full stack i receive AA
2 limpers, one raise to 10xBB. button calls
i reraise 40xBB. one of the limpers fold, 3 others call.
flop comes KQ6 rainbow. I check, first guy to my left goes all-in
the other 2 guys call.
i fold.

the winner ended up having KQ

do you think this the right way to play it here?

i play 10$NL Bodog right now and people are calling huge raise with anything. is there anything i could do differently to make people fold pre-flop?

[Miffed22001]

push?

how often will you get called by a worse hand? i.e by a fish with KQ?

Other than that you played this hand fine. Im actually surprised you folded...

[JCMoney]

i thought about pushing, but a 4x reraise sounded enough to me to make them fold any stupid hand. would you not fold it on the flop? 3 people all-in, i thought my pair of As had no chance.

[Miffed22001]

i thought about pushing, but a 4x reraise sounded enough to me to make them fold any stupid hand. would you not fold it on the flop? 3 people all-in, i thought my pair of As had no chance.

true

[givememyleg]

Wellllllll... at this level if someone is open raising 10x bb he will probably call a push so go go go go go!!

[pantherhound]

Sometimes you just gotta look yourself in the mirror and say when in Rome.

[flomo]

you got aces, this is 10NL and half your stack is already in there, don't over think this play. push preflop or push flop .

good luck
flomo

[jackvance]

You HAVE TO push preflop here.

[AceRagSuited]

You HAVE TO push preflop here.

I agree 100%. First caller preflop is much less likely to call a push than a 4x re-raise. The problem you ran into was the sandwich player who saw you re-raise, saw the player in front of him call, and absolutely knew that the player behind him was calling. At this point, calling for him is the right play because he's getting 3:1 on his call. If the player behind the sandwiched player pushes one or two others could fold and he's getting TREMENDOUS odds to call the re-raise all-in. I think the sandwiched player played this hand the best by far preflop. You should have pushed. Your fold here is good though, if no one has KK QQ 66 or KQ in this situation it would be a miracle. Maybe one of the all-ins has AK or AJ/AT or JTs, but you can rest assured one of the three has you completed crushed.

This is a perfect illustration of how NOT pushing preflop with AA against a mid position raiser after 2 limpers cost you almost half a buyin. And if you think all 3 of them are going to call an all-in, what the hell are you doing reraising with aces at that table to begin with? Unless I'm POSITIVE that two of my opponents have KK or AK, or are sharing high cards there's no way I want to play 4 way for an entire buyin with just AA. That comes down to table selection. I applaud the caller with KQ here. He was getting great odds to call preflop and when you reraised, and he almost definitely put you on AA if you've been playing like an open book TAG. I personally would much rather have a hand like KQs QJs JTs if I was almost certain I was up against AA,KK, or QQ. Why? Because it's much easier to improve the non-paired hand when mutliple people in the pot have their outs mutually burned.

My guess on the whole cards of your opponents would be:
AK, KQ, (obviously you already said that) and JTs or a pair of Jacks or 10s

The original PFR had AK, you had Aces. first caller after you had JTs (probably with a backdoor flush), and the sandwiched player had KQ.

I can't see one of the all-ins calling without a big draw. It's possible that one of them had AT or AJ for an inside straight with an overcard (but if they suspect you had AA why would they bother?)

How close was I?

[jackvance]

Well, my reasoning here is that if people tend to 'school' you - I think that's what it's called when tons of people at the table call anything - then I'd just make preposterous overbets whenever I know I'm ahead.

In such a situation, with a guy raising preflop 10BB and getting a call, AA is an instapush. If I see a flop with a low pp and hit a set, allin on the flop.

I don't see this too much at prima though, but maybe that's because I play 6max?

Anyway I'm gonna put Bodogg on my list of sites to check out

[JCMoney]

jackvance wrote:

You HAVE TO push preflop here.

took that in note. thanks guys


AceRagSuited wrote:

The original PFR had AK, you had Aces. first caller after you had JTs (probably with a backdoor flush), and the sandwiched player had KQ.

I can't see one of the all-ins calling without a big draw. It's possible that one of them had AT or AJ for an inside straight with an overcard (but if they suspect you had AA why would they bother?)

How close was I?

first to my left had AK, second one had KQ, last one had KT...???
so this gives us first guy TPTK, second guy 2pairs and last one pair of Ks and T kicker...
those tables are between 70-80% of players per flop.
bodog poker for you

[flomo]

those tables are between 70-80% of players per flop.
bodog poker for you

ty- i should read better but it was a public school

Holy crap!!! where is this site, i need some money

[krimson]

And if you think all 3 of them are going to call an all-in, what the hell are you doing reraising with aces at that table to begin with? Unless I'm POSITIVE that two of my opponents have KK or AK, or are sharing high cards there's no way I want to play 4 way for an entire buyin with just AA.

Yeah, at worst AA is like 50% to hold up against 3 callers, so the EV of going AI preflop with aces aginst 3 callers could be as little as +1 buy-in. Much better to wait for the 2 or 3 opportunities to make EV = +3 buy-in plays that you're likely to get during the next orbit!

[a500lbgorilla]

open push the flop and this isn't even a close decision. Anytime I commit 1/4th or more of my stack preflop and flop an overpair, I'm going to get it all in on the flop.

Becuase opponents don't outflop you enough to make calling 40 preflop +EV, so whatever happens post flop isnt important.

[Vrax]

Rilla is right, open push.

The pot is huge and you folded a shitload of equity in 160BB pot.

Preflop fine, potsized re-raise would be 50BB, you raised 40 which is fine but you have to stick the rest of it on the flop because pot is too big to fold even if you think you are behind.

Sometimes you have to think "Darn I have a pretty good hand and if you have a better one sir, I hope to suck out on you" like Fnord once said.

[Renton]

When half the effective stack gets in preflop with AA, you have already made huge money. Who cares if you are beat on the flop, you are freerolling with their money. Push and hope to suckout.

[AceRagSuited]

I disagree, with all those callers, if he's up against 2 pair or a set, he's dead to rights, all the equity in the world in a 3way pot wouldn't make up for it. Don't listen to these people. Your fold was ABSOLUTELY the right play here. Your equity and pot odds in comparison to your outs did not justify a call, you were almost certainly a 3:1 dog AT BEST and you could very well be an 8:1 dog against all 3 other hands.

[samsonite2100]

Don't listen to these people. Your fold was ABSOLUTELY the right play here.

Bodog

+

i play 10$NL

+

i receive AA

+

i reraise 40xBB.

=

The easiest call in the history of poker.

[AceRagSuited]

So you're saying 3 people call $5 half buy-in preflop raises and NONE of them have KK QQ or KQ. You people are complete donkeys. THEY'RE JUST A PAIR OF ACES PEOPLE. Last time I checked having aces DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE AUTOMATIC NUTS!! So let's look at this logically shall we

Let's assume the pot has got $16.15 in it (4x40BB raises + blinds) and for the sake of argument we'll assume everyone started with a single $10 buyin the blinds both folded, so all four remaining players in the hand each have $6. $6x3 is $18. making a total pot of $34.15 you're getting a price of $34.15/$6 or about 5.7:1.

Now that we know what our pot odds are, let's look at our hand odds here. I'll even run this a few different ways to show you that this is not at all a profitable call.

Scenario 1:
Hero: AA
Villian 1: KQ
Villian 2: KT
Villian 3: AK

This is the BEST CASE SCENARIO for the described preflop actions for his Aces, short of two players both having AK and drawing stone dead to the case K, with the 3rd player having JJ. But why would JJ call a push on this flop? In almost all logical situations here he's NEVER going to be better than a 3:1 underdog.

However, once the action is back to our hero on the flop, he has 3 all-ins in front of him. I'm guessing that AK, KQ, and KT or AK, AK, JJ is NOT what he's speculating these 3 players have. So let's examine a worse scenario:
Hero: AA
Villian 1: KK
Villian 2: QQ
Villian 3: AK

He's a whoping 19:1 dog!!!! Drawing dead to running straight cards or the case ace.

And let's not forget he could be drawing only to running straight cards with 2 burned outs for a split, so the worst case scenario is:
Hero: AA
Villian 1: KK
Villian 2: AK
Villian 3: JTs

6/45 * 5/44 is NOT how I want to get my money in, unless there is $100 in the pot and it's $1 to me to call.

You jerks telling him to push this flop with that preflop action should have your head examined. Are you trying to teach people to be donkeys so you can take their money?

The only way this becomes a profitable call is if he knows that the best he's up against is two pair, and no one has JT. Especially when it figures that if none of the 3 have KK or QQ, one of them HAS TO HAVE AK, burning one of his outs.

[a500lbgorilla]

his fold is ok, but his opening check is terrible.

you should be trying to avoid putting yourself in a position to have a hard decision when you can make the easy push and no you're still way ahead in the long run thx to the preflop action.

[bode]

Don't listen to these people. Your fold was ABSOLUTELY the right play here.

Bodog

+

i play 10$NL

+

i receive AA

+

i reraise 40xBB.

=

The easiest call in the history of poker.

lol

[AceRagSuited]

his fold is ok, but his opening check is terrible.

you should be trying to avoid putting yourself in a position to have a hard decision when you can make the easy push and no you're still way ahead in the long run thx to the preflop action.

His check on the flop isn't bad, more often than not he's up against KK or QQ and needs to outrun a set. When one or more push behind him it's an easy fold. You're too big of an underdog too often to make any kind of play at this pot. Unless the donkey will fold his top 2, which is highly unlikely.

It was just a horrible flop for Aces with that many preflop callers of a reraise the large. Check-fold here saves him more money than it loses him in the long run.

It's hard to say though, because if he open pushes the flop KQ might put him on KKs and not Aces. BUT if he's an intelligent player he'd realize with only two kings left in the deck, there are 6 ways he can have Aces or 3 ways if he thinks one of the other two players has AK. 9 ways for him to have Aces or Queens, 1 way for him to have Kings, so he's almost never drawing totally dead, there are 3 more ways he could have QQ than AA if the guy with 2pair thinks one other player has AK. So if the guy is smart he might put him on a set of queens and fold, but that's highly unlikely.

Check-fold here was the right play. No way KQ gets laid down with two all-ins in front of him, he's getting too good a price.

[WhooFleuryScores]

Preflop: Reraise is fine but you need to make it more than the standard 4x because we already had a cold caller...meaning you need to make 5x-6x(i.e. let's presume this is NL25 since I see those numbers better).

Villain raises 10x so 0.25 * 10=$2.50. We have first donkey call. There is now $5 in the pot to hero with 2-3 more donks to act. Standard reraise is 3x-4x the raise + one raise for each cold caller. Therefore with one cold caller we need to make it 5x-6x so $2.50 * 6=$13. I would even go as far to make it $15 to go so I can make this pot so bloated and big that my hand becomes bulletproof and bluff proof.

With the flop......well with the pot being as big as it is you unfortunatly are the p word(pot committed). So because of pot odds and the off chance you are ahead or are drawing live you must call.

[samsonite2100]

So you're saying 3 people call $5 half buy-in preflop raises and NONE of them have KK QQ or KQ. You people are complete donkeys. THEY'RE JUST A PAIR OF ACES PEOPLE. Last time I checked having aces DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE AUTOMATIC NUTS!! So let's look at this logically shall we

Let's assume the pot has got $16.15 in it (4x40BB raises + blinds) and for the sake of argument we'll assume everyone started with a single $10 buyin the blinds both folded, so all four remaining players in the hand each have $6. $6x3 is $18. making a total pot of $34.15 you're getting a price of $34.15/$6 or about 5.7:1.

Now that we know what our pot odds are, let's look at our hand odds here. I'll even run this a few different ways to show you that this is not at all a profitable call.

Scenario 1:
Hero: AA
Villian 1: KQ
Villian 2: KT
Villian 3: AK

This is the BEST CASE SCENARIO for the described preflop actions for his Aces, short of two players both having AK and drawing stone dead to the case K, with the 3rd player having JJ. But why would JJ call a push on this flop? In almost all logical situations here he's NEVER going to be better than a 3:1 underdog.

However, once the action is back to our hero on the flop, he has 3 all-ins in front of him. I'm guessing that AK, KQ, and KT or AK, AK, JJ is NOT what he's speculating these 3 players have. So let's examine a worse scenario:
Hero: AA
Villian 1: KK
Villian 2: QQ
Villian 3: AK

He's a whoping 19:1 dog!!!! Drawing dead to running straight cards or the case ace.

And let's not forget he could be drawing only to running straight cards with 2 burned outs for a split, so the worst case scenario is:
Hero: AA
Villian 1: KK
Villian 2: AK
Villian 3: JTs

6/45 * 5/44 is NOT how I want to get my money in, unless there is $100 in the pot and it's $1 to me to call.

You jerks telling him to push this flop with that preflop action should have your head examined. Are you trying to teach people to be donkeys so you can take their money?

The only way this becomes a profitable call is if he knows that the best he's up against is two pair, and no one has JT. Especially when it figures that if none of the 3 have KK or QQ, one of them HAS TO HAVE AK, burning one of his outs.

Lighten up, Francis.

[JCMoney]

So preflop obviously raise more, even push. everyone seem to agree on that.
Now on the flop, everyone seem to argue.
I see a lot of "pot commited" comments.
even though I am pot commited, wouldn't calling there be -EV in the long run? My read was that at least one of them had hit a set (obviously wrong). but i dont see any reason to call there other than hoping for an A to come save me on the turn or river. I am not a great poker player and i know very little about it, but isnt one of the first thing they teach you "Cut your loses"?

[AceRagSuited]

Preflop: Reraise is fine but you need to make it more than the standard 4x because we already had a cold caller...meaning you need to make 5x-6x(i.e. let's presume this is NL25 since I see those numbers better).

Villain raises 10x so 0.25 * 10=$2.50. We have first donkey call. There is now $5 in the pot to hero with 2-3 more donks to act. Standard reraise is 3x-4x the raise + one raise for each cold caller. Therefore with one cold caller we need to make it 5x-6x so $2.50 * 6=$13. I would even go as far to make it $15 to go so I can make this pot so bloated and big that my hand becomes bulletproof and bluff proof.

With the flop......well with the pot being as big as it is you unfortunatly are the p word(pot committed). So because of pot odds and the off chance you are ahead or are drawing live you must call.

Being pot commited is a tournament concept. When you have the ability to buy back into the game you are NEVER pot commited ever. There is no such thing as being pot committed in NL cash games unless you're down to your final buy-in. In NL cash games on every street you're either getting +EV to call or make a bet or raise (based on the hand you put your opponent on) or you aren't and should fold it's that simple.

[AceRagSuited]

Lighten up, Francis.

People who don't take poker seriously will lose.

[a500lbgorilla]

his fold is ok, but his opening check is terrible.

you should be trying to avoid putting yourself in a position to have a hard decision when you can make the easy push and no you're still way ahead in the long run thx to the preflop action.

His check on the flop isn't bad, more often than not he's up against KK or QQ and needs to outrun a set. When one or more push behind him it's an easy fold. You're too big of an underdog too often to make any kind of play at this pot. Unless the donkey will fold his top 2, which is highly unlikely.

It was just a horrible flop for Aces with that many preflop callers of a reraise the large. Check-fold here saves him more money than it loses him in the long run.

It's hard to say though, because if he open pushes the flop KQ might put him on KKs and not Aces. BUT if he's an intelligent player he'd realize with only two kings left in the deck, there are 6 ways he can have Aces or 3 ways if he thinks one of the other two players has AK. 9 ways for him to have Aces or Queens, 1 way for him to have Kings, so he's almost never drawing totally dead, there are 3 more ways he could have QQ than AA if the guy with 2pair thinks one other player has AK. So if the guy is smart he might put him on a set of queens and fold, but that's highly unlikely.

Check-fold here was the right play. No way KQ gets laid down with two all-ins in front of him, he's getting too good a price.

Do you understand that becuase of preflop action, he could push and run into KK and QQ and JTs every time and still win money on this hand in the long run?

He's freerolling postflop and there are all sorts of hands that call an open push becuase these opponents are bad.

Poker is about putting yourself into easy spots, an easy spot is to push. Reguardless of what happens, you banked some money on this hand. A tough spot is to check and see what happens. Everyone checks behind, turn drops a K? J? T? Q? even middle cards could hit hands like 99 and 88.

I think my point that they will call weak will be made when the original poster tells us what the other two guys had.

They called and couldnt beat top 2, which means they didnt have sets, probably not AA, so that means hands like AK, KJ, QJ, JJ, 88 maybe made the call.

Now think what if KQ had KJ, the other two dufuses made weak calls, whats stopping him!?

To bad players, there's so much money out there, you're not presenting them with a -ev bet when you push, you're presenting them with the opportunity to GAMBLE for a lot of money. A fish LOVES to gamble. And we love it when fish gamble.

[samsonite2100]

People who don't take poker seriously will lose.

Alright, guy--here's a serious analysis. Have you ever played Bodog 10NL? I'm guessing no, or you wouldn't be giving the supremely cruddy advice of folding AA on the flop having already put half his stack in. At that site, at this level, these people could literally have anything--we could be looking at AK, KJ, and 55. We could be looking at JJ, AQ, and 88. We could be looking at 22, 33 and uno card/jose canseco rookie card. Not to mention the fact that, as has been repeatedly stated, he's essentially freerolling with villains' $$ at this point.

People who don't understand why folding here is -EV over the long run will lose.

[JCMoney]

when the original poster tells us what the other two guys had.

first to my left had AK, second one had KQ, last one had KT...

[AceRagSuited]

People who don't take poker seriously will lose.

Alright, guy--here's a serious analysis. Have you ever played Bodog 10NL? I'm guessing no, or you wouldn't be giving the supremely cruddy advice of folding AA on the flop having already put half his stack in. At that site, at this level, these people could literally have anything--we could be looking at AK, KJ, and 55. We could be looking at JJ, AQ, and 88. We could be looking at 22, 33 and uno card/jose canseco rookie card. Not to mention the fact that, as has been repeatedly stated, he's essentially freerolling with villains' $$ at this point.

People who don't understand why folding here is -EV over the long run will lose.

Money you've invested in the pot is no longer yours, it belongs to the pot. There is no way he's ahead more often than not here, I don't even think he's ahead here often enough to make an open push +EV. People who make their betting decisions in NL cash games based on how much money they've already invested in the pot will be big losers in the long run. This is what happens when donkeys try to apply tournament poker strategies to ring games.

Maybe I need to switch over to Bodog if people are caling 1/2 stack preflop raises with 22 and 33. Trying to convince yourself that you're ahead often enough to open push and hope for the best is a completely moronic play that will lose you a lot more than it will win you in the long run.

"I should open push because they probably all called with garbage preflop!!!"

And you've got it ass backwards, if you open push and one of them has QQ or KK, they're freerolling with YOUR money. The only hand he's got pot equity against here is KQ. Also, as I said before if one of the players had AK (which coincidently they did) he's drawing to one out, running straight cards, a 6 on the turn, or a running board pair.

[spoonitnow]

Maybe I need to switch over to Bodog if people are caling 1/2 stack preflop raises with 22 and 33.

They are. Seriously.

[samsonite2100]

Maybe I need to switch over to Bodog if people are caling 1/2 stack preflop raises with 22 and 33.

Refer to my above post. Do you not think stakes and site make a difference in online poker? If so, please take your entire bankroll and head over to the Stars 10/20 game.
I've played more than probably half my online poker hands at Bodog, built my BR there, and can attest to the fact that folding AA in this situation is a bad move at these stakes. You are generally correct about the basic principles involved here, but wrong about this specific hand given the context.
I am now done with this thread and am off to play my usual jerky, moronic, donkish style of poker, ftw.

[Halv]

People who don't take poker seriously will lose.

Thanks for stating the obvious. Now tell me how the other responses were non-serious?

We could be looking at 22, 33 and uno card/jose canseco rookie card.

That's awesome.

[AceRagSuited]

People who don't take poker seriously will lose.

Thanks for stating the obvious. Now tell me how the other responses were non-serious?

We could be looking at 22, 33 and uno card/jose canseco rookie card.

That's awesome.

That was a direct reference to him telling me to lighten up, not an attack on the content quality of the other posts or the intelligence of the other posters.

[Halv]

That was a direct reference to him telling me to lighten up, not an attack on the content quality of the other posts or the intelligence of the other posters.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I just wanted to point out that seriousness about poker includes the ability to look at a hand from different perspectives.

[BankItDrew]

his fold is ok, but his opening check is terrible.

you should be trying to avoid putting yourself in a position to have a hard decision when you can make the easy push and no you're still way ahead in the long run thx to the preflop action.

Betting into this many callers after such a huge raise just makes the decision to call an all in an easier one. Checking here is the best way to approach it.

[q8moh87]

bodog is the king of the bad beats (king of the jungle as they like to say in their tv commercial)
I don't recommend it to anyone

[Halv]

bodog is the king of the bad beats (king of the jungle as they like to say in their tv commercial)I don't recommend it to anyone

Sorry man but I just have to laugh.

[Greedo017]

all i want to add to this is:

AA here IS freerolling with their money. If you don't understand this think harder. it is impossible for aa to lose money on this hand. if you don't understand that either, think even harder. That doesn't mean its correct to throw away 50BB if you think you might be behind, but in this situation, it probably is.

It couldn't be more wrong to say you shouldn't base your actions on how much you've already put in the pot. This is the driving force behind the entire game.

[AceRagSuited]

all i want to add to this is:

AA here IS freerolling with their money. If you don't understand this think harder. it is impossible for aa to lose money on this hand. if you don't understand that either, think even harder. That doesn't mean its correct to throw away 50BB if you think you might be behind, but in this situation, it probably is.

It couldn't be more wrong to say you shouldn't base your actions on how much you've already put in the pot. This is the driving force behind the entire game.

The money you have already put in the pot in a cash game is irrelevant. The only thing that matters post flop, on every street is the equity your hand has to the overall value of the pot and how much more you are asked to bet to win a certain amount, and whether or not the equity your hand offers to the pot factoring in implied odds on future streets justifies the call.

If you're taking bad odds on the flop bet for the percentage of time you will be behind, it's a compound error. Not only are you losing your preflop bet the majority of the time, this call on the flop for 1/2 your stack has got to be -EV, I don't see how that's a freeroll.

[a500lbgorilla]

his fold is ok, but his opening check is terrible.

you should be trying to avoid putting yourself in a position to have a hard decision when you can make the easy push and no you're still way ahead in the long run thx to the preflop action.

Betting into this many callers after such a huge raise just makes the decision to call an all in an easier one. Checking here is the best way to approach it.

YOU ARE SO WRONG HERE IT'S HURTING ME

They will call beat which is made painfully apparent by the 2 callers that couldnt beat KQ! And you already made money on this hand via preflop action AND you're not a huge dog vrs KQ ANYWAY!

[a500lbgorilla]

when the original poster tells us what the other two guys had.

first to my left had AK, second one had KQ, last one had KT...

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1832648
pokenum -h ad ah - ks qc - kh ts - ac kc -- kd qs 6h
Holdem Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs Kd 6h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Ah 192 23.41 616 75.12 12 1.46 0.241
Ks Qc 593 72.32 227 27.68 0 0.00 0.723
Ts Kh 23 2.80 797 97.20 0 0.00 0.028
Ac Kc 0 0.00 808 98.54 12 1.46 0.007

Plz fucking push

A quarter of the pot is ours 4 ways, it's enormous, lets go win it.

[AceRagSuited]

when the original poster tells us what the other two guys had.

first to my left had AK, second one had KQ, last one had KT...

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1832648
pokenum -h ad ah - ks qc - kh ts - ac kc -- kd qs 6h
Holdem Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs Kd 6h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Ah 192 23.41 616 75.12 12 1.46 0.241
Ks Qc 593 72.32 227 27.68 0 0.00 0.723
Ts Kh 23 2.80 797 97.20 0 0.00 0.028
Ac Kc 0 0.00 808 98.54 12 1.46 0.007

Plz fucking push

A quarter of the pot is ours 4 ways, it's enormous, lets go win it.

You're not factoring in the %age of the time one of the three in a half stack raised preflop will have flopped a set. He doesn't KNOW that's all he's up against when he's making the decision.

[a500lbgorilla]

at this point, if you still think getting people to commit half their stacks preflop and then check folding any flop is wise... i can't help you.

[flomo]

you got aces, this is 10NL and half your stack is already in there, don't over think this play. push preflop or push flop .

good luck
flomo

i'm with rilla
PUSH

[midas06]

riilla is so much hotter when he's not in the comm

[Greedo017]

The money you have already put in the pot in a cash game is irrelevant.

this is more of a technicality. yea, you should base your decisions on pot size. but think about this. preflop. you get qq. you bet. why? why not wait for aces? because you have money committed to the pot already, in the blinds or not. that money is gone. irrelevant right? wrong. calling or raising is only ever more +EV than folding (every hand but aces) because you constantly are fighting to not lose your blinds.

If you're taking bad odds on the flop bet for the percentage of time you will be behind, it's a compound error. Not only are you losing your preflop bet the majority of the time, this call on the flop for 1/2 your stack has got to be -EV, I don't see how that's a Freeroll.

Ok here's an exercise for you. You have AA. You are against one opponent. You raise to 50BB and he calls, you both have 100BB stacks. He can have whatever hand you want. You push every flop with AA. Run this situation 100 times, he has to win the # of times he's supposed to, as do you. Show me a case where AA loses money. go.

after this, maybe use your imagination and guess the result if you were against two people? four?