Can you improve your NL game learning LIMIT?

[Nancy Sexton]

Are we all supposed to start with Limit, then move to NL?

I frankly think they're two very different games.

Frankly, I really hate limit - it seems like playing HE in shackles.

My problem - I just bought Turbo Texas Holdem to try to improve my game. I had no idea I couldn't learn to play NL here.

I see that if I had bought the tournament software instead, NL would have been available.

But NL Ring games and NL Tournaments are somewhat different as well.

Also, frankly, I don't feel ready to tackle Tournaments until I get my basic NL ring game in order.

I played all the basic styles (except low-limit) - and every level seemed SO full of calling machines it was crazy - and I kept on losing - even if I asked for and always followed their advice.

Tight-Aggressive - oh, they were aggressive all right - but now I'm advised to re-raise with pocket 9's. When I was playing average-passive, it wouldn't advise me to raise with JJ - and both were in pretty late position.

Does anybody know if there's good software to learn to improve your NL game?

It's bad enough most of the books are for limit as well.

If you think this software is still worthwhile, should I get the "insider's tips" as well as "Sidewinder Sid" - those prices don't put me off, it's just the whole LIMIT thing.

Nancy

[jyms]

Time and money down the toilet I think. Play micro limit real cash games. Read a couple of books, they are better bang for the buck. Don't waste your money on garbage. Check the book section here at FTR, My suggestions Brunsons super system, Theory of poker and small stakes holdem( it's a limit book but it's got great details on pot odds and post flop play.

[jameseyb]

Is Super Sytem worth the money? I was planning on getting that a few months ago, but ended up getting HoH II instead. Would you recommend SS as a good investment?

J

[IowaSkinsFan]

Personally i heard super system isn't very good.

[jyms]

It's really good in the no limit and limit sections ( some of the book covers other forms of poker). Kind of standard reading for ring games. HOH and HOH II are more tourney based. The other one I liked was SSH. It translates well enough to NL even though it's considered a limit book.

[Miffed22001]

micor stakes lhe is pretty useless imo. Stick with micro NL. However, when you are rolled to play games like 2/4 3/6 shorthanded lhe i would arguement there are benfits to doing so in conunction with reading ToP by sklansky.

[andy-akb]

SSHE is a good book, and has many concepts that you can apply to NL. The best book though that applies specifically to NL is NLHE:TP by Sklansky, Id pick that up and read it frist. TOP is simply too advanced for somebody just starting out and a lot of the stuff applies to limit poker, not no limit. I havent really heard many specifics about super system and I actually thought it was a tournament book, so I cant comment on that. HOH is a very good book that applies primarily to tournaments but a lot of the stuff can apply to ring games as well and is very useful, I just picked up HOH3 and will read that when I finish NLHE:TP

[jyms]

I have read all the books we've discussed except HOH and 2 and they are my next read. Just aquired them this week. ToP is the hardest book to read for a beginner, I have read it twice and still have some trouble, but I am a beginner (5 months) poker player. All the others are much easier to understand and implement.

[BankItDrew]

Learning Limit can help your NL game because it better teaches you about pot control.

[Miffed22001]

Learning Limit can help your NL game because it better teaches you about pot control.

lol

no such thing as that in lhe :P

[Nancy Sexton]

I got that software because it was so highly regarded HERE in the Tools of Poker section.... Didn't begin to realize it'd only be Limit.

Best money invested so far has been Sklansky's TOP, I liked HoH also, but find you can't always play like that online low stakes NL.

I can't hardly get myself to read Super System the way Brunson goes on and on about JT.

Oh well, the software wasn't super expensive.....

Nancy

[Happy Jones]

Ive have both super system I and II and to be honest I think there crap. Actually I think thats harsh but there just not nearly as good as other books. Doyle's no limit parts is all about high stakes NL. He continously refers to pots being in the $10000 range and him having an endless bankroll.
If you play high stakes and are willing to gamble alot then it might be good for you other than that id recommend sklanskys books. Much more down to earth and realistic as well and shows in depth stuff that exact pot odds and reasons behind certain plays (its a tough read but i think its worth it).
Just to give you the jist of doyle brunsons super system NL section. Dont be aggresive be insane aggressive so aggressive that youll be willing to go into a pot with the worst of it (notic i said aggressive three times). Thats basically it just bet and raise as much as possible.
Thats just my opinion though i seriously think super system is over rated to the average player.
Also i was just reading an article on this site by howard lederer saying that playing limit holdem will benefit you in NL as well as it will force you learn odds and post flop play. Ive read tons of limit books but mostly play NL (not online) and i can tell you its helped my game alot, just remeber theres a difference.

And one more thing Id always like to see AA over AK in NL anytime i dont care what doyle says.

[jyms]

Sounds to me then, that you are beyond the teaching tools and need game experience nancy, Have at'er.

[Renton]

i think that playing limit helps you realize the value of longshot draws, such as gutshots and backdoors.

Also NL players with their roots in limit generally value suited hands more than their counterparts.

[Miffed22001]

i think that playing limit helps you realize the value of longshot draws, such as gutshots and backdoors.

Also NL players with their roots in limit generally value suited hands more than their counterparts.

thats because we play better post-flop :P

[jyms]

Ive have both super system I and II and to be honest I think there crap. Actually I think thats harsh but there just not nearly as good as other books.

I actualy have found these books pretty good. In SS 1 his NL section is pretty much gold standard for ring games. But I have none of the new books that have come out in the last 6 months or so. (by every pro that thinks he can teach as well as play) I don't think there is a better book on NL "ring". I would love to find a book that has more pertinent information to online NL cash ring(mainly small and micro stakes) That has the entire system of pre-post flop. If there is I'm getting it tomorrow. Mind you, I have like 3 or 4 in que waiting to be read so maybe I have it already and don't know.

[Thee One]

HOH Vol 1 is an excellent book for starting out playing a Tight Aggresive style. Doyle's book helps you value mixing up your play. Neither should be the end all to your knowledge but they both help.

If all else fails, AOK's 19 hand philosphy is free, available here and WILL keep you out of trouble. You'll make money with it but slowly. You trade that for less risk though.

I thought Ed Miller's getting started in Hold 'em was pretty good too when I was just starting. Talked mostly about limit though but he threw in a bit of specific info on NL too.