Pot Odds

[MortimerJazz]

First of all, hi to everyone. Hope I'll make some new friends here.

Having read through the article on the mainpage "why you suck at Hold'Em" (or something similar), I recognised myself in a fair few of the reasons. One of them was about chasing pot odds ... and that's something I've never really understood.

I've just done a search in the Beginners Circle, hoping that I'd find a post dedicated to Pot Odds, but I haven't so I'll ask the question myself.

Can someone explain (or provide me a link to an article) about how I work out pot odds? And once I've worked them out, what are good pot odds and what aren't? What kind of odds do I want to be playing with?

Thanks alot,
Morty

[Lukie]

size of pot : how much to call = pot odds

count what the other guy puts in but not what you put in

so if the pot is 20, and somebody leads for 10, the pot is now 30 and it costs 10 to call. you are getting 3:1 odds.

What are 'good' odds really depends on the situation, and in deep stacked big bet poker, implied odds are often more important then pot odds.

[MortimerJazz]

Thanks Lukie,

So are pot odds cumalitive then?

I mean in the example above I'm getting 3-1, but when the second round of betting starts do those odds change depending on how much goes in to the pot? Or do I start calculating fresh pot odds for the second round of betting?

[Harry]

As the pot increases through later rounds of betting, your odds generally get better (in fixed limit.) This is one of the reason a lot more people go to Showdown in limit, because they often have a very big pot for only one BB or 2. In NL, however, someone can kill your odds at any time, by making a very large bet, relative to the pot.

[MortimerJazz]

Ok, so it sounds like pot odds are unique for each individual round of betting.

Can I just ask why they're so important though? I know that might sound like a particularly dumb question to some people, but I just want to make sure I understand the absolute basics.

Cheers,
Morty

[biondino]

Because you assume that if you are chasing a flush or a straight, you will make that hand - which will almost certainly be a winning hand - a known percentage of the time (for example, an OESD on the flop has a 16% chance of hitting on the turn). Therefore, simple arithmetic tells you that if you are required to put LESS than 16% into the pot, then it is +EV to do so. If you are required to put 40% in (say, the opponent has overbet the pot), then it would be wrong for you to call.

The complexity lies in the concept of implied odds. If, say, you are required to bet 25% but only have a 16% chance of hitting, then your pot odds are bad - but because, if you DO hit, you have a chance of making a lot more money from the opponent, you can justify making the call as this extra $$$ will more than negate the "loss" you are making by your call.

Obviously this is oversimplified, and there will always be other considerations (are you drawing to the nuts; are any of your outs tainted; how many other players are there still in the hand etc), but basically that's how it works.

[geoffm33]

Obviously this is oversimplified, and there will always be other considerations (are you drawing to the nuts; are any of your outs tainted; how many other players are there still in the hand etc), but basically that's how it works.

Just wanted to reiterate what biondino mentioned about drawing to the nuts. Make sure that your hand will win if you hit it. If you are drawing to a flush or straight and the board pairs or is paired, be careful you aren't drawing dead (ie: already beat).

[MortimerJazz]

(for example, an OESD on the flop has a 16% chance of hitting on the turn). Therefore, simple arithmetic tells you that if you are required to put LESS than 16% into the pot, then it is +EV to do so. If you are required to put 40% in (say, the opponent has overbet the pot), then it would be wrong for you to call.

Ahhh, now it's starting to make sense. Thanks alot for that biondino. I've now got an idea of when pot odds are favourable. Looks like I'll be needing to work on my maths a fair bit too in order to make these calculations quickly.

[geoffm33]

Read this:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...es/?a_id=13913

[MortimerJazz]

That's a great link with some really useful tips in it. Thanks alot geoff

[Xanadu]

The relationship between pot odds/implied odds and hand equity is the most important concept in poker. Before you learn anything else, you need to really understand this relationship and how it affects your decisions at the table. Figuring the pot odds is easy ... it's just the ratio of what you have to put in the pot to what is already there. You also need to know how to adjust this for implied odds, and also make adjustments for when you are not closing the betting for the current round ... for example, if it's a 5way pot, and SB bets, and you are in the BB, you need to weigh the possibilities of how many people may call, the chances of a raise behind you, etc. which need to be factored in.

Once you have a good grip on the pot odds, you need to get good at estimating your hand equity (pot equity), which is the chances you have of winning the pot. I'm assuming this is a case where we probably need to improve the hand to win. I find it easiest to assign a value to the hand by counting up outs. Outs to the nuts count full value ... any out that is not to the nuts needs to be devalued a little or a lot depending on the situation. I'll post some examples a little later.