Newbie help

[BankItDrew]

Can someone post a link(s) or post something that would be useful for pot odds and implied odds? I was trying to explain both concepts to my gf but couldn't quite get the implied down pat.

Consider this example:

I am dealt 89o. One raiser, I call. Flop comes 75J. Raiser bets $1 into a $3 pot. I know that I do not have pot odds to call here, but that I might have implied odds. How do the chips I put in on the turn and river affect the math?

Thanks.

[jyms]

just a quick look and I got this. http://www.flopturnriver.com/poker-odds-charts.html

[jackvance]

Pot is $3, Villain bets $1, so you have to call $1 into what will be a $5 pot, or 20%. Chance to hit is like 16% on the turn for a double gutshot, pretty good with implied odds.

And you can't calculate implied odds directly, only indirectly through EV. An example.

Let's say Villain is going to bet 2/3 pot on the flop, turn and river.

Flop. Pot $9. Villain bets $6. You call $6 into what will be a $21 pot or 29%.
Turn. Pot $21. Villain bets $14. You call $14 into what will be a $49 pot, again 29% ofcourse.
River. Pot $49. Villain bets $33. Pot is $82. If you hit you call (or push and he folds), if you missed you fold.

So you always pay $14+$6, and if your straight hits (32% chance) you get paid.

EV= -$20 + (32/100)*($82)= +$6.24

So in this scenario, the implied odds make up for calling against the odds. You are expected to win $6.24 on average here.

You can also see how this is -EV play if your opponent won't pay any more money on the river. You called with bad pot odds, so it should be -EV if you play for the pot alone. And it is indeed:
EV=-$20 + (32/100)*($49)=-$4.32

Hope this helps.

[Monty9]

Now I'm confused.

I thought you didn't count your call as part of the "POT" when calculating pot odds.

Aren't you "paying" x to win the pot as it is.

calling a pot sized bet is usually 2:1 on your money

your way it would be 3:1

Like I said ....I'm confused?

[chardrian]

Ok - I did a search and found the posts where we went over this stuff last month, but it is a common newbie question so I'll just reply again.

Here is how I look at pot odds and implied odds.

Pot odds = just straight math and you should just look at it on a street by street basis.

Pot odds get confusing because some people look at them as ratios and others look at them as percentages. I.e. saying that your pot odds are 2:1 is the same as saying that they are 33%. Your odds for catching your outs by the next street need to be better than your pot odds for it to be a +EV play based on pot odds alone.

Implied odds takes it one step further and makes you guesstimate how much more you can piad off if you do hit your outs. I.e. even if the pot odds are 33% (or 2:1) and your odds of hitting your out on the next street are only 25% (or 3:1) if you do hit your outs what are the chances that your opp will pay you off? If those chances are high, you can then make a -EV pot odds call based on the implied odds that if you do hit, you will be paid off huge.

So long story short - figuring out pot odds is just straight math that all poker players must learn; implied odds is using your instincts.

[jackvance]

Now I'm confused.

I thought you didn't count your call as part of the "POT" when calculating pot odds.

Aren't you "paying" x to win the pot as it is.

calling a pot sized bet is usually 2:1 on your money

your way it would be 3:1

Like I said ....I'm confused?

I don't see why you are confused. Pot is $10, villain raises $10, you call $10 into what will be a $30 pot, so $10/$30 or 33%.. which incidentally is 2:1.

The confusion is probably because I use fractions.