Outs and clean outs

[kevster]

Can somone explain this to me please. I understand outs and I think I understand the concept of clean outs (cards that aren't already out there right) but do you every really know the difference.

I have an idea but it'd help if someone could guide me here and also give an example.

Thanks.

[Pelion]

clean outs are outs that are unlikely to help your opponents hand.

e.g. if you have 66 and the board is 789

then any T will give you a straight but it isnt really a clean out as anyone with a J has you crushed.

Similar with AQ on a board of TJA. any Q will give you 2 pair but it will give anyone with a K the straight so the Q is a very very dirty out.

edit: another less obvious, but probably more common example would be something like A9 on a flop of Q92

If the guy looks like he has TPTK then hitting the A would be horrible even though it looks like an out.

[Staresy]

Or ...

You hold J 9

and the flop comes ...

Q T 3

the K and 8 are both outs for you, but the K and 8 are not clean outs here, because they potentially complete the flush.

[kevster]

Brilliant. Cheers Guys

Simple and clearly put. I love this site. Really need to practice/learn counting outs / clean outs / calculating pot odds. I've started doing this but am still very ropey - guess it comes with time.

How are finding Southampton Pelion?

[Pelion]

How are finding Southampton Pelion?

Its awsome. Drowning in physics at the moment though (see the goal in my sig.). Cant wait till i have some time to actually play poker....

[TLR]

just to cpmplete the terminology

outs which are not clean are often called tainted outs

another common scenario of 'tainted outs'

you hold

baord is

the are tainted since they pair the board and can complete a boat

[salsa4ever]

Obvious examples of the tainted outs:
Straight card that completes a 3 flush
Flush card that pairs the board

But lets say a situation like:

Ac Kc on a Jc 10d 4c board. How many outs will you count?

Obviously any Q and any club except 10c gives you the nuts, but are the overcards good?

In this situation I would count 3 outs for the overcards (half of six), 3 for the straight, and 9 for the flush as 15 outs. Therefore I consider myself a favorite on the flop and would likely bet and push if raised.

[kevster]

Thanks again guys

[Pelion]

Therefore I consider myself a favorite on the flop and would likely bet and push if raised.

I know this is getting slightly complicated now but, although id put my self as a favorite without anymore information, if someone looks like they want to get it allin are you really still going to count the overcards as outs?

I think you can pretty much ignore your overcards if you face a reraise here.