Use Trapping? Yes or no?

[hoaznod]

I've been having lots of trouble trapping people lately.
say i would flop trips, two pair, or a straight.

Looking back on my HH i'm usually in first position or just calling down someone betting medium amounts into me, but i've lost an insane amounts (according to my poor standards) to trapping.

I know that usually trapping would go with the circumstances with like position, and how the other player plays, or what is on the flop but i just wanted to know everyone's basic trapping strat.

I play at 100NL at UB and it's extemely fishy, but i can never get paid off. I see people just betting pot, overbetting pot, and scaring people off with made hands so i try and trap.

Anyways onto hypothetical situations...

#1

cursebonusqud is at seat 0 with $82.35.
mitzu is at seat 1 with $98.50.
ENY2RIT is at seat 2 with $33.50.
roffletown is at seat 3 with $55.
docscf is at seat 4 with $103.85.
hans_brix is at seat 5 with $21.30.
UNCLEGAMBS is at seat 6 with $54.85.
tchngo is at seat 7 with $25.85.
fywmf is at seat 8 with $38.
Deric421105 is at seat 9 with $92.70.
The button is at seat 9.

cursebonusqud posts the small blind of $.50.
mitzu posts the big blind of $1.

roffletown: Ts Td


Pre-flop:

ENY2RIT folds. roffletown raises to $3. docscf
folds. hans_brix calls. UNCLEGAMBS folds. tchngo
folds. fywmf folds. Deric421105 folds.
cursebonusqud folds. mitzu folds.

Flop (board: 9d Ah Th)

i'm first to act, and i checked.
what would you do?

#2

roffletown: 9d 6h

Pre-flop:

cleanuout folds. LotteryTicket folds. Scoop187
folds. JasonV91 folds. brent0658 folds.
mrdestiny_2 folds. cool breez folds. GuMBysalad
folds. ixlr8 calls. roffletown checks.

Flop (board: 3c 6c 9h):

ixlr8 checks. roffletown bets $1. ixlr8 raises to
$2. roffletown re-raises to $3. ixlr8 calls.

Would you reraise more?

Turn (board: 3c 6c 9h 7s):

ixlr8 bets $8. roffletown calls.

Reraise. (i'm pretty sure i should of...)

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Hand 1:

Generally speaking (no reads), I lead out. This is a draw heavy board with an ace... You're likely to get action anyways so why not bet out, not only to get value for your hand but also make the person pay to draw. The range of hands that would call your pre-flop raise are likely to have got a piece of this board, and giving your opponent a chance at a free card is a mistake IMO. I would opt for a weak lead (~1/3 to 1/2 the pot). It gives your opponent the chance to come over the top of you for typically a larger bet than he would have made had you simply checked to him. The weak lead implies exactly that, whereas a check-raise implies strength and your opponent would probably be more inclined to slow down or even fold. Even if he just calls your are getting at least some value out of your hand and a 1/3 to 1/2 bet is still enough to give improper odds for most draws.

Hand 2:

Don't even bother getting fancy or try trapping. Two pair is something you want to play fast. I don't treat it much different than having TPTK. This is another draw heavy board and you're betting the minimum. Why? You're giving your opponents an open invitation to catch up. Save the slow playing for your monsters, two small pair isn't one of them.

[Checkways]

I've been having lots of trouble trapping people lately.
say i would flop trips, two pair, or a straight.

Looking back on my HH i'm usually in first position or just calling down someone betting medium amounts into me, but i've lost an insane amounts (according to my poor standards) to trapping.

I know that usually trapping would go with the circumstances with like position, and how the other player plays, or what is on the flop but i just wanted to know everyone's basic trapping strat.

I play at 100NL at UB and it's extemely fishy, but i can never get paid off. I see people just betting pot, overbetting pot, and scaring people off with made hands so i try and trap.

Anyways onto hypothetical situations...

#1

cursebonusqud is at seat 0 with $82.35.
mitzu is at seat 1 with $98.50.
ENY2RIT is at seat 2 with $33.50.
roffletown is at seat 3 with $55.
docscf is at seat 4 with $103.85.
hans_brix is at seat 5 with $21.30.
UNCLEGAMBS is at seat 6 with $54.85.
tchngo is at seat 7 with $25.85.
fywmf is at seat 8 with $38.
Deric421105 is at seat 9 with $92.70.
The button is at seat 9.

cursebonusqud posts the small blind of $.50.
mitzu posts the big blind of $1.

roffletown: Ts Td


Pre-flop:

ENY2RIT folds. roffletown raises to $3. docscf
folds. hans_brix calls. UNCLEGAMBS folds. tchngo
folds. fywmf folds. Deric421105 folds.
cursebonusqud folds. mitzu folds.

Flop (board: 9d Ah Th)

i'm first to act, and i checked.
what would you do?

#2

roffletown: 9d 6h

Pre-flop:

cleanuout folds. LotteryTicket folds. Scoop187
folds. JasonV91 folds. brent0658 folds.
mrdestiny_2 folds. cool breez folds. GuMBysalad
folds. ixlr8 calls. roffletown checks.

Flop (board: 3c 6c 9h):

ixlr8 checks. roffletown bets $1. ixlr8 raises to
$2. roffletown re-raises to $3. ixlr8 calls.

Would you reraise more?

Turn (board: 3c 6c 9h 7s):

ixlr8 bets $8. roffletown calls.

Reraise. (i'm pretty sure i should of...)

It depends mostly on the factors that you've already stated. It also depends a LOT on your game. You said your game is usually fishy. Don't slow play, you're just giving them free cards then. Trapping should be mostly used against aggressive players. On a few occassions you will check to draw in a Rock hoping that they catch something. But usually, you slow play to get aggressive players to either bluff or to protect their weaker hand.

Against better players, slow playing and trapping are very important strategies. You have to mix it up. You will not only be harder to read, but you will get your draws and showdowns for cheaper when you don't have a monster.

Situation A is a good time to trap. You're heads up against a short stack. My main concern here would be that I won't get paid off. Sure he might have the heart draw, and that would suck, but whatever. Take a chance. It's heads up.

Ask yourself this, if he went allin with that short stack would u call after hitting your set? Of course, so don't worry about him outdrawing you. Now you just have to figure out a way to get those chips. You'll have to figure that for yourself. It depends on the player and the board, but you should definitely be looking to trap here.

Situation B is weird because it's the battle of the blinds. Blinds never give each other credit for having a good hand, so the other guy could be raising with TP junk kicker here. Hit him back hard and then see where you stand. I don't like to play two pair slow, especially a crap two pair.

[Checkways]

Hand 1:

Generally speaking (no reads), I lead out. This is a draw heavy board with an ace... You're likely to get action anyways so why not bet out, not only to get value for your hand but also make the person pay to draw. The range of hands that would call your pre-flop raise are likely to have got a piece of this board, and giving your opponent a chance at a free card is a mistake IMO. I would opt for a weak lead (~1/3 to 1/2 the pot). It gives your opponent the chance to come over the top of you for typically a larger bet than he would have made had you simply checked to him. The weak lead implies exactly that, whereas a check-raise implies strength and your opponent would probably be more inclined to slow down or even fold. Even if he just calls your are getting at least some value out of your hand and a 1/3 to 1/2 bet is still enough to give improper odds for most draws.

This is a good strategy too against aggressive players. I like to do this if I called the preflop raise instead of being the one that raised it. I typically don't bet weak, so I can't do this too often.

You lead weak hoping that they will bluff you or they will try to protect their Ace by raising you and thereby increasing the size of the pot. Secondly, it's good because it looks like you're on the draw, so when you "miss" on the turn they will drop the hammer. But you hammer is bigger.

The problem with leading weak in my opinion is that it doesn't have much to do with draws. The draw will call you with this discounted price and increasing implied odds and now you have no idea where you stand if the heart comes out.

Secondly, the draw will usually bet. So you're better off check raising.

If I'm worried about draws (and I'd only be worried in a multiway pot) then I'll either bet it big or try to check raise. If I'm going to make them pay, then I want to make them pay a lot. Otherwise, I'm just gonna trap.

Just my opinion.

[DogOnMySide]

I dunno about trapping. It's obviously a great move sometimes, but I certainly feel it's easy to get too into the "I AM TRAPPING THIS SUCKA!" mindset and not twig quite how much danger you're in...

The first example that comes to mind is from last night, but there are others.

***** Hand History for Game 2861932981 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, October 11, 18:32:22 EDT 2005
Table Table 69482 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: ActionDavidK ( $24.75 )
Seat 5: DogOnMySide ( $65 )
Seat 6: saiflai4 ( $44.95 )
Seat 9: Alififali ( $28.50 )
Seat 10: AlmightyNick ( $21.65 )
Seat 8: MakeItHott1 ( $29.95 )
Seat 3: hummbling ( $19.95 )
Seat 7: dasmith31 ( $13.16 )
Seat 2: tarellan0 ( $9.25 )
Seat 1: Blade57 ( $15.50 )
ActionDavidK posts small blind [$0.10].
DogOnMySide posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DogOnMySide [ 8c Tc ]
saiflai4 folds.
dasmith31 calls [$0.25].
MakeItHott1 folds.
Alififali folds.
AlmightyNick folds.
Blade57 folds.
tarellan0 folds.
hummbling folds.
ActionDavidK folds.
DogOnMySide checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Qh, 9h ]
DogOnMySide checks.
dasmith31 bets [$0.75].
DogOnMySide raises [$1.50].
>You have options at Table 66236 Table!.
dasmith31 raises [$1.50].
DogOnMySide calls [$0.75].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
>You have options at Table 66236 Table!.
DogOnMySide bets [$2].
dasmith31 raises [$4].
DogOnMySide calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
DogOnMySide checks.
dasmith31 bets [$4].
DogOnMySide: worried about kt
DogOnMySide calls [$4].
dasmith31 shows [ Js, Qd ] a full house, Jacks full of queens.
DogOnMySide doesn't show [ 8c, Tc ] a straight, eight to queen.
dasmith31 wins $20.05 from the main pot with a full house, Jacks full of queens.

I was far more concerned about the high straight or the trip Jacks. My head was obviously in "straights" mode and JQ didnt even cross my mind as a holding.

Difficult to do anything about this i think, but a hefty re-raise on the flop might have helped.

[Vrax]

IME, the best moment to set up the trap is, when you CALL someone's raise and flop the boss hand.

Like:
22 + A2x r flop - check to the raiser, let him bet out his Ace, CR turn and of course call push. Or if he call CR, then lead out the river - value bet it.

Trips from pocket pairs are best payoffs, when raiser makes his hand on the flop too. If he doesn't make his hand or is a weak passive pussy, it's better to just bet your hand out.

[Rondavu]

Danutsinyoeye was right on with all his points.

Hand #1:
It's tough when you flop a good hand with an ace on the board if your opponent doesn't have an ace. The solution is to act afraid of the ace yourself, and hope your opponent tries to push you off. You do this NOT by checking, but by betting the perfect amount. I usually bet 1/2 pot or a little less. Not so little to look like value, but not so much to rep too hard. Just enough to bait him. It's an artform to know exactly what amount is right for what opponent. This is probably the biggest fishing parallel in poker. Checking an ace flop looks suspicious, because repping an ace is such a consistent occurance. You have to rep it to some extent.

Hand #2:
In the second hand what we have is the counterfeit slowplay opportunity. It looks like a good time to slowplay, but it isn't. Slowplay is all about percieved vulnerability. Think about the cards that could beat you on 4th street. Any club, 5, T, bigger two pair. Lots of stuff. What you want out of any situation is to have the right hands paying you. In a situation like this you want an overpair in hand with you.

[Greedo017]

a good thing to remember with trapping, is if they already made their hand on the flop, why not just bet then (can be small or weak looking, whatever, but don't just check.) if you don't think they've made their hand on the flop, then you can't trap them if they're drawing to a hand that beats yours.

[Checkways]

Hand #1:
It's tough when you flop a good hand with an ace on the board if your opponent doesn't have an ace. The solution is to act afraid of the ace yourself, and hope your opponent tries to push you off. You do this NOT by checking, but by betting the perfect amount. I usually bet 1/2 pot or a little less. Not so little to look like value, but not so much to rep too hard. Just enough to bait him. It's an artform to know exactly what amount is right for what opponent. This is probably the biggest fishing parallel in poker. Checking an ace flop looks suspicious, because repping an ace is such a consistent occurance. You have to rep it to some extent.

This is one of the best ways to lay a trap. You cont bet when you have nothing, and you check when you have a monster. Therefore, you bet when you have a monster and totally throw them off. But unfortunately, it gets more folds than not when you're the preflop raiser and in a heads up battle. Your opponent will either have to have a draw or a pocket pair or be REALLY aggressive AND decide that this is the time they want to make a move on you. Sometimes, they just don't feel like it's the right time and since the pot is still small, they just let you have it.

However, it also depends on your image. If you're laggy then this trap works a lot better obviously.

I try this trick a lot and I've found that checking works better most of the time (albeit not nearly as brilliant though). The reason is because if they have the draw, they'll bet it. If they want to bluff you, they'll bet it. If they have the ace, they'll bet it. Better to check it and then rep a bluff or the 2nd pair on the turn. Honestly, 90% of the time they have to have at least something to continue. So better to give them another chance at it.

[harmisajedi]

Two pair is something you want to play fast. I don't treat it much different than having TPTK. This is another draw heavy board and you're betting the minimum. Why? You're giving your opponents an open invitation to catch up. Save the slow playing for your monsters, two small pair isn't one of them.

that's something we should all print out, frame & hang right above our monitors. hitting two-pair on a rag flop from bb/sb is NOT something to be slow-played, especially w/ more than 3 people in the hand (chances are, since you were able to limp in the hand, so did others.) the absolute worst is when you hit two-pair on the flop, check it in early position hoping for a bet & go down to another higher two-pair made on the turn or river b/c everybody behind you checked...

also, this is extremely basic but something i need to really work on myself-- majorly dangerous flops need to be bet @ LEAST pot-sized--i.e., dream flops for suited connectors. when playing against deep stacks, i get nervous about something like a 984 flop even if i'm holding trips & the board is rainbow.

[Aces]

I was far more concerned about the high straight or the trip Jacks. My head was obviously in "straights" mode and JQ didnt even cross my mind as a holding.

Difficult to do anything about this i think, but a hefty re-raise on the flop might have helped.

I'd also be worried about the flush on the turn. Should've bet the flop much harder. If he still comes over the top, then reraise AI. Can't credit him with a straight there. With 2pr he probably calls anyway though. With with a higher straight, flush, or FH possible I'm very concerned on that turn. Trip Jacks is the only likely hand that reraises that turn that you're beating.

Well rereading this post I just realized a mistake I made over the weekend in a live game that cost me about $500 when I didn't rereaise enough on a dangerous flop. Damn.