Suited Connectors Questions

[TalentedTom]

I see a lot of very good high level players preety much always playing these hands from just about any position and calling any raise with them. I was wondering, ( I play 50 NL ) is this a good idea, calling the standard 4-5xBB raise with cards from 56s - JTs, would this be a profitable play in the long run vs low level oppponents who will preety much call any raise i throw at them. I currently only play raised pots with any PP + 2 cards over queen on occasion AJ if my position is good.
I would just like some insight into this topic because its something I would like to add to my game + things like 1 gappers, should i call with these on the assumption if i do indeed hit what im looking for i can overbet and it will be called by the original raiser.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

I was wondering, ( I play 50 NL ) is this a good idea, calling the standard 4-5xBB raise with cards from 56s - JTs

No. High level players are playing their opponents as much, if not more than they are playing their own cards. At lower limits you'll do much better off sticking to "ABC" poker due to the poor quality and questionable play of your opponents. You are right that suited connectors/1 & 2 gappers are good hands to start adding to what you play, but at least initially, you should be seeing flops with them in position and for cheap.

These type of hands take a lot more creativity to play and reading your opponents becomes that much more important as well. How often are you going to flop a monster with hands like these? Not very often. At least not often enough to be regularly calling 4-5x BB bets, especially out of position. You simply can't play these hands expecting to flop something like the nut straight and get paid off by someone with a high pocket pair. Often times the flop won't even hit you. Sometimes you might hit a small pair, but then pretty much any card is an over card and can potentially beat you. What you're hoping to hit with hands like suited connectors is something like a 4 flush or an OESD. A flop like this is a good one for you, but even then you are still drawing. If someone bets 5x BB pre-flop and you call with 89s and you get a good flop with 4 to a flush, if they bet the pot you still aren't getting odds to call. If you play like this you'll be throwing away a lot more money than you'll gain when you finally do hit that huge hand and get paid off.

At this point I'd recommend only playing these type of hands in late position and if you can see a flop cheaply. Obviously if multiple people call in front of you then you can be a little more liberal in how much you'll pay to see a flop. Suited connectors also make suitable (har har) hands for blind steals.

[spino1i]

Playing suited connectors takes practice and I would only add it your game when you get to 200 NL, before that point you can just play the ABC poker camping game and make great money.

[Rondavu]

I play these hands. I'll tell you why. Implied odds. It's because your hand is easy to get away from postflop, but if you do hit the flop hard, you'll take a large chunk of your opponents stack IF (and that's a big IF), Your opponent has a hand that HE will find hard to let go of. Has to be the right opponent however.

That's what implied odds are...

(Easy to let go of) VS (Hard to let go of)

That's why this is an advanced technique. You have to be able to put your opponent on cards, and know they will pay you off if you hit. You will NOT call a raise with these hands against a tight passive opponent. They find every hand easy to let go of. The only exception I can think of is when you want to surprise them and distort your image. You won't make money off these specific hands against that opponent. It could help you make money on other hands against this opponent.

You'll be hooked the first time you call 5x with 56s and hit a 478 flop to extract 50 bucks from a loose aggressive holding AA. It's like sex.

Oh I forgot one thing. You have to have a big stack, and your opponent has to have a big stack. It's all about the perfect conditions. If you find an aggressive opponent with a high stack, then use these trap hands against them. If you hit 1 out of 7 you make money.

So to review the conditions...

1. Loose opponent
2. Opponent High stack
3. Have at least 1x buy in yourself
4. Have position on them
5. Get away if the flop isn't VERY strong for you
6. Best against high pocket pairs

[Pingviini]

You may also want to raise suited connectors and one gappers when you are on position. Your opponents will most likely put you on high cards (if they ever put anybody on any cards) and they will be surprised after the showdown. Still I wouldnt recommend raising with these cards in games lower than nl100/nl200. Calling especially several calls before you is recommended even at the lower stakes. BUT the money has to be deep..

[DimitriT]

Saw one in action last night..

Had a guy in NL50 call my $2 PFR. I was holding AA and he was holding 79s. 3-way pot was $6 on the flop. I was BB. He flopped a straight with 8TJ (a somewhat deceptive one) and called my $7 bet. I had a nut-flush draw from the flop. I checked on the turn and called his $10 bet (this was probably a loose call but I had the draw to a flush and the board paired, so I had a full draw too). River was a blank and was followed by check-check.

In all he extracted $19 from my AA. Probably would have gotten only the $9 if I didn't have a flush draw and I felt I played it fast and loose.
If this is a typical scenario of suited connectors I would say they are a losing proposition. You need odds to hit your flop in the right way against the right opponent holding the right hand. If all these things line up, then MAYBE its profitable.

[Rondavu]

If this is a typical scenario of suited connectors I would say they are a losing proposition. You need odds to hit your flop in the right way against the right opponent holding the right hand. If all these things line up, then MAYBE its profitable.

The residual and beneficial effects of playing these hands for a raise or raising them actually extends beyond the hands themselves. Alone they seem hard to profit from, but coupled with the side effects they become surely profitable. The side effects I can think of now...

-Less postflop continuation against you in the future from raisers who miss a flop, allowing you to draw for cheap.

-More respect for your continuation on any flop, since they can't put you on anything.

-Showing them down when people fold to your raise of them preflop gives you action on Big Hands later. (Who wants to steal blinds all day?)

-Showing them down when your bluff continuation gets a fold postflop gives you action on Big Hands later. (They stop believeing you)

All in all once you create your image into that of a person who raises with anything, and calls with anything, and then couple that with a couple well timed bluffs and showdowns, then you have essentailly primed the cash pump into your stack.

Tight Aggressive is inherently a flawed style, because it opens up a world of reads for your opponent. There are 52 cards in the deck. You don't want your opponent putting you on 16 of them. The perfect scenerio involves you playing 16 of them (plus small pocket pairs) most of the time, but making your opponent think otherwise by playing the other 36 of them in the right spots, for the right price, against the right opponents, and possibly taking their whole stack with rags.

[ChezJ]

awesome thread guys. thanks for the food for thought.

[Rondavu]

I should also add that what Dmitri said about it not being worth it at lower limits is true. That's because everyone is stupid and basically paying attention to their own cards. You would be giving way to much credit.

There is a place for it at lower limits however. It's called 6max. Works like a charm there.