Mission: Become a poker player - via FTR

when you make a goal don't say you are going to stop doing things you need to keep stuff in a positive manner. I can't think of a positive way to say i'm going to not look at my cashier cause your brain will go look at the cashier. Do something like I'm only gonna look at my tables when I play.

oh ya another goal I'm gonna chat in IRC for one hour everyday

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

I wish Zook was my father!!!!

I'm actually looking to adopt someone over 21 with decent wage-earning potential. Please PM me with your details.

How to play Aces from EP... couldn't beleive this when I checked the HH after the hand, had to share it with you guys...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t1420)
UTG+1 (t1570)
MP1 (t230)
MP2 (t1055)
MP3 (t2070)
CO (t2765)
Hero (Button) (t1470)
SB (t1440)
BB (t1480)

Hero's M: 49.00

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 10
UTG calls t20, 2 folds, MP2 calls t20, 2 folds, Hero calls t20, SB calls t10, BB checks

Flop: (t100) 4, Q, 5 (5 players)
SB bets t40, 1 fold, UTG calls t40, 1 fold, Hero folds

Turn: (t180) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, UTG checks

River: (t180) 7 (2 players)
SB bets t40, UTG calls t40

Total pot: t260

Results in white below:
SB had 3, 2 (high card, Queen).
UTG had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: UTG won t260

on an unrelated side note... I raise 3bb utg (150) with AK(s) - I get a shove from MP and a call from MP+1 both their stacks put me all in. (midposition of $1 sng) I fold AK, is that a decent fold?

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

on an unrelated side note... I raise 3bb utg (150) with AK(s) - I get a shove from MP and a call from MP+1 both their stacks put me all in. (midposition of $1 sng) I fold AK, is that a decent fold?

I'd say it's a good fold unless the blinds are big enough to force you to play a hand soon. If that's the case, you may have to wait too long to get a better hand than AK.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

on an unrelated side note... I raise 3bb utg (150) with AK(s) - I get a shove from MP and a call from MP+1 both their stacks put me all in. (midposition of $1 sng) I fold AK, is that a decent fold?

Good fold especially that early in a SNG thats the first level your probably beat or a coinflip but it's not worth it at that point. Get in IRC.

Thanks. I just seem to be missing a slight edge at the moment. I played for quite a while yesterday and managed to break even over about 40 $1 sng's - but couldn't seem to get any momentum under me and get in front.

I'm going to work on my mid and late stage strategy now, I have the early stages pretty much under the belt - you can't go far wrong there really. A few times I've had a big chip advantage with about six of us left and managed to lose half of it and just make the money... I think I'm going to work more on preserving my chip lead and only playing monsters in late position, and stealing from the mid/short stacks.

I have this thing in my head that says it's bad to just tighten up in the later stages if your chip leader as you're not using your chips optimally... but then I think this is compensated for by the reduced risk of losing half your stack to a bad beat/or when your AQ meets AK for instance. Interested to hear your guys thoughts on this.

Also I have a November bonus at PS to reach SilverStar by the end of the month, If I can just break even over 20 $3sngs daily until the end of the month I'll hit it, reach silverstar, and trigger the $50 bonus for the following month. This sounds like a good BR boost for me at the moment so I might try that.

Do these bonuses occur every month? or are they more random? First time I've had that message when I log into PS??

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

I have this thing in my head that says it's bad to just tighten up in the later stages if your chip leader as you're not using your chips optimally... but then I think this is compensated for by the reduced risk of losing half your stack to a bad beat/or when your AQ meets AK for instance. Interested to hear your guys thoughts on this.

I suck at SnG's, so I may be full of bs here. But my view on a big chip stack is that you have to use it - well. Playing too loose allows opponents to wait for great hands and double through or win a big pot, thus allowing them back into the game. Playing too tight, you blind off all your monies. There is some happy medium, playing good solid ABC poker, opening a bit (especially in position), and taking a few small chances. You don't have to play very loose (maybe 15-20% or so VP$P) to stay even with the blinds if you don't go card dead, so there's no reason to start playing 40% of your hands.

Originally Posted by Robb

I suck at SnG's, so I may be full of bs here. But my view on a big chip stack is that you have to use it - well. Playing too loose allows opponents to wait for great hands and double through or win a big pot, thus allowing them back into the game. Playing too tight, you blind off all your monies. There is some happy medium, playing good solid ABC poker, opening a bit (especially in position), and taking a few small chances. You don't have to play very loose (maybe 15-20% or so VP$P) to stay even with the blinds if you don't go card dead, so there's no reason to start playing 40% of your hands.

Depends on your stack, opponents' stacks, how many left in the game etc. In some instances, you can be raising 80% - 90% of your hands and be uncontested.

If no one is comparable in chips then 50% is quite easily achievable. Defacto, even.

weren't you sat at 10NL cash tables on stars yesterday?? lucky1slevin?

Originally Posted by sil693

weren't you sat at 10NL cash tables on stars yesterday?? lucky1slevin?

Hopefully not.

He has also blocked his Sharkscope stats. This would seem to indicate that he has continued playing SNGs when he said he wouldn't - and isn't rolled for.

3 2 1 ...

Originally Posted by sil693

weren't you sat at 10NL cash tables on stars yesterday?? lucky1slevin?

No my stars name is LkySlev1n.

Originally Posted by Thunder

He has also blocked his Sharkscope stats. This would seem to indicate that he has continued playing SNGs when he said he wouldn't - and isn't rolled for.

I'm flattered that you chose to spend your time checking me out on Sharkscope. I disabled sharkscope some time ago courtesy of past trollers.

sorry to dissapoint.

Past trollers know your SNG results and even posted them in your operations so what benefit is blocking them now? That's the door and bolted horse scenario.

Originally Posted by Thunder

Past trollers know your SNG results and even posted them in your operations so what benefit is blocking them now? That's the door and bolted horse scenario.

I didn't block them 'now', re-read what I just said

Thunder if you can't control your animus, kindly stay out of my thread.

It was a perfectly reasonable question.

That you have chosen to avoid and react as you have speaks volumes. As does your blocking of your stats and the flimsiness of your excuse.

Whether you blocked them last week or last month makes no difference to the fact that everyone knows you played almost 400 SNGs and crashed like a degen. Hence the bolted horse metaphor.

Originally Posted by Thunder

It was a perfectly reasonable question.

You didn't ask a question you made two statements. If you had of asked a question I would have course answered but your third person statements about me where obviously designed to spark a reaction which I'm not prepaed to give you. I'm not engaging with you anymore, it's up to you if you continue to post but I'd rather you didn't.
-----

Hey everyone (lingering trollers aside), I've been thinking a bit more about the lower stakes recently and also reading and learning more about multi-tabling.

I realised today that by 10 tabling 5nl, at just 5ptbb/100 which I would assume is a fairly modest expectation at that level, I would be earning about $5 an hour which is about $40 a day, which would see the bankroll grow fairly rapidly I'm sure. In the past when I've 8-10 tabled I've done so with all the tables in view (with them next to each other - spread over the laptop screen and a second monitor).

Have recently replaced the laptop with a slightly more reliable desktop - which although not new, is still quite a bit better than the laptop I was using.

I experimented a little with stacking and playing 5-8 sng's at a time, and over about 40/50 had 18% ROI.

Anyway getting back to the start of this post, 10 tabling 5nl would allow me to make some significant bankroll growth at just 5ptbb/100.

I think I'm going to find a lowly coach that is just currently grinding 10nl, but has a known record of beating 2nl/5nl - over a large number of games. I'm guessing their rate would be fairly reasonable as they are still in the low stakes - but at the same time they would be able to teach me how to beat the 5nl stakes. Assuming It takes me a week or so to learn how to beat that stake, then it will only take me another couple of weeks and I should be well on my way to building a greatly increased BR.

I'm going to check out the web and some of the other sites and see what the prices are like, does anyone know what a cheap price for someone of this standard i.e. proven ultra micro stake winner would likely be? Thanks!

I am going to hope that there aren't any coaches at 10nl and I predict there aren't. Hopefully you can network with someone at those stakes and ask for a little guidance or ask if they can sweat you or something or you sweat them.

Oh I see what you mean, you wouldn't expect a good player to be at 10nl for very long, so if a 'coach' is that would be dubious... hmm, what do you think the lowest stake games a 'basic' coach, if there is such a thing, would play, would be?

You'll definitely get the lowest price from networking and knowing people personally. I can't really say what the cheapest rate would be. What are you trying to spend?

I really think it'd be more beneficial to befriend players who have the time to talk/sweat/etc. with you for free/small price.

I no longer believe you're real.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

You didn't ask a question you made two statements. If you had of asked a question I would have course answered

Then what was this:

Originally Posted by Thunder

Past trollers know your SNG results and even posted them in your operations so what benefit is blocking them now?

?????????

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

but your third person statements about me where obviously designed to spark a reaction which I'm not prepaed to give you.

Or it was, as I can confirm, a continuation of the discourse that was already set in motion and which, when I replied, was being carried forth by ProzachNation?

You have a habit of (mis) psychoanalysing everyone that you perceive to be disrespectful of you. I remember all those claims that Stacks, Muzzard, DeanGlow were acting out of self loathing. It's hilarious!

Like most of these guys, I asked a simple question and made a simple point. All you had to do was answer but again you choose to see animosity and inveigling where there is none.

Looks like a major form of (repeated) Freudian slipping to me.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

I'm not engaging with you anymore, it's up to you if you continue to post but I'd rather you didn't.

I was wondering if this line would be trawled out. This should be on your tombstone - along with "I'm taking a break for a few months", "I've learnt BRM" & "I have assimilated all the info FTRers have given me", thx guys".

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

Hey everyone (lingering trollers aside)

Is that what you call anyone who points out the flaws in the reasoning, asks a simple question & notes that the refusal to answer was telling?

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

I experimented a little with stacking and playing 5-8 sng's at a time, and over about 40/50 had 18% ROI.

So will you unblock your stats and let us see?


No doubt you'll twist this into some hate rage hard on to bring Slevin down when reality is quite different. One post to Prozach & co and one to you. Before you got all pissy, that is.

Originally Posted by zook

I no longer believe you're real.

You become more and more like the dad I want with every post.

20 years old. Junior in college. 100nl winner, soon to be 200nl. Looking for a father who likes hookers and blow as much as I do.

Thunder will likely get a strike if he keeps posting in this thread. Look at what happened to redpalo for an example.

Slevin, if you want to become a better player, come to IRC. It's really that easy.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Slevin, if you want to become a better player, come to IRC. It's really that easy.

OK I'll give that a try, I'm next going to be playing either tomorrow or Friday so when I am I'll stop by, thanks.

I offer my coaching services at reasonable rates, PM for deets. I am a proven winnnnaaaaaar up to 50nl.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Originally Posted by zook

I no longer believe you're real.

You become more and more like the dad I want with every post.

20 years old. Junior in college. 100nl winner, soon to be 200nl. Looking for a father who likes hookers and blow as much as I do.

This is promising.

(Minus the hookers, I'm engaged. But I'm a firm believer that young men should "sow their wild oats".)

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Slevin, if you want to become a better player, come to IRC. It's really that easy.

OK I'll give that a try, I'm next going to be playing either tomorrow or Friday so when I am I'll stop by, thanks.

Just come in right now. Hard to study when you're in the middle of playing.

A bright new day.. and a new dawn in Slevins Poker journey! time to put the failed attempts behind me and move on to a winning strategy once and for all

New OP. Beat 2nl for 6ptbb/100 over 10k of hands.

Important things that should happen along the way.
- remember 2nl is an end in itself.
- don't worry about money, just think winrate.
- post biggest losers after every losing session and learn from feedback.

I'm actually going to spend a fair amount of time each day just thinking about winrate and 2nl - and what it is i'm trying to achieve, like 30 minutes a day just thinking to myself about it. After a couple of weeks of this hopefully it'll be ingrained and should change the way I look at my time at the poker table, I think this is probabally the most important thing I need to do now to make the transition from losing player to winning player.

It dawned on me today I've never been able to say I can beat a stake, it must be rewarding when you can do that. That's my goal for 2nl. I'd like to play 30k hands at 2nl in the long run and see how my stats fair, but for now taking one step at a time, I'm going to stick with a goal of 6ptbb/100 over 10k of hands.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

I experimented a little with stacking and playing 5-8 sng's at a time, and over about 40/50 had 18% ROI.

Anyway getting back to the start of this post, 10 tabling 5nl would allow me to make some significant bankroll growth at just 5ptbb/100.

I think I'm going to find a lowly coach that is just currently grinding 10nl,

three things:
1) unblock sharkscope if you want anyone to believe your amazing transformation to a winning sng player. Or not. Up to you

2) 5ptbb/100 means a buy in every 1000 hands. So if you're playing 1000 hands an hr, then $5/hr is very achievable - however 1000 hands of Full Ring will probably take closer to 1 1/2 hrs if ten tabling full ring.

3) you're wasting your money paying a 10nl grinder for coaching. As you explained yourself, anyone generating a decent winrate will get significant returns - and won't be stuck at 10nl. ISF's article on beating beginner stakes tells you all you need, so long as you can stop yourself falling into fancy play syndrome.

best of luck

edit:

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

what do you think the lowest stake games a 'basic' coach, if there is such a thing, would play, would be?

50nl, does spoon still offer coaching?

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

It dawned on me today I've never been able to say I can beat a stake, it must be rewarding when you can do that. That's my goal for 2nl. I'd like to play 30k hands at 2nl in the long run a

it's nice to be able to beat a level. I played a lot of hands at $5nl about a year ago, and beat it. Felt good.

Originally Posted by daven

unblock sharkscope if you want anyone to believe your amazing transformation to a winning sng player.

Which is what I asked. As well as asking why they were blocked in the first place as they've been known for months.

Slevin, you need to get your ass back into IRC.

please let spoon and the others help you

good luck!

Thanks flomo/spoon, and thanks Daven regarding my sharscope stats, I've decided they are staying blocked. I prefer to keep it that way to put a wall in front of the trollers, I know how I'm doing and that's all that really bothers me =)

Daven those comments you made about my 5nl post - thank you for that. I'm actually playing 2nl now as per last 'new op' post though. Also having spoken with Zook via pm he's persuaded me that 10 tabling 2nl is not going to be wise playing 8 hours a day, so I'm going to 6table instead. Also this should help me to get more of a return from learning, I'll be hanging out in the IRC chat room a fair bit now as well - it was a nice experience there yesterday was made to feel very welcome, and it was nice chatting with some of the ftr regs in realtime and getting to know them a bit more

focus on one type of holdem for now
stick with whatever you choose, whether it be cash/ring, sng or tourneys

there are sites other than sharkscope that the trollers can look you up on

Have read eupho's article on simple poker math and it's been an excellent read - poker math seems simple now, which it certainly didn't in the past - well worth the read for anyone that doesn't 'get' poker math - i'm looking forward to using it at the tables http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...=simple%20math

I'm also going to read that book he cited in his article!

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

, I'll be hanging out in the IRC chat room a fair bit now as well - it was a nice experience there yesterday was made to feel very welcome, and it was nice chatting with some of the ftr regs in realtime and getting to know them a bit more

I love to say this told you so everyone in there is chill.

Down about 3 buyins since yesterday so my $10 heads up winnings was down to $4. Have just deposited my final deposit to take me to $50 - this is going to be my last deposit - come on time to crack 2nl this time around!

I need to read Eupho's basic math article (linked above) before each session to remind me the basics until they are set, this will help me greatly with odds and deciding whether to stay in the pot on the strength of a draw.

I've been lucky to receive some great advice from great players at FTR, which I've broken into key points to remember when I play. Will start my first session with these points in mind when I get in, in a couple of hours as I'm going to see my new nephew that was born yesterday now =0

1. PRE FLOP STRATEGY (courtesy of spoon)

If first in the pot (no one has limped or raised before you)

EP:
UG: AQ+ ; 55+
UG+1 : add AJ(s) KQ(s)
MP1: add AJ(o) KQ(o)

MP
MP2 - add suited broadways, add any pocket pair
HJ - add any broadway, A9(s)-A8(s), T9(s)-87(s)

LP
CO - add 54(s)+ , any suited ace
BU - add Ax, Kx(s), 64(s)+,

SB (dependent on BB reads... but as a rule)
any two cards 9 or higher
any suited connector
any pp

If the pot has already been opened from someone in...

EP: 3bet with QQ+ and AK ; IF loose player add JJ-TT
call with all pp (if implied odds good)

MP: 3bet with slightly wider range if opp is loose enough.
call with SCs and PPs if good IO.

LP/BLINDS: 3bet with (as above)
call with all pp's and scs (again if IO are ok).

2. Don't bet unless you have TPGK or are drawing to the nuts, or are HU on the flop and cbetting your initial PF raise. (courtesy Dozer)

3. Don't raise anyone trying to force them out of a pot as part of some cbet strategy, only raise if you think you have the best hand. (courtesy Keilah)

4. The more your FE is the more you should bet draws aggressively... so unless strong reads tell you otherwise don't use the bet draw tactic at 2nl. (courtesy Dozer)

5. Remember why you bet. To get weaker hands to call, or to get better hands to fold. (courtesy Stacks)

6. Your focus should be on every descision while at the table and on analayzing your hands after your sessions, that's where all effort should be. Stop thinking about winrates and how much you are earning / are going to earn when you move up. (courtesy Zook)

7. Don't otherthink your game or read up on things that aren't relevent to where you are at in your poker journey. Micro stakes is ABC poker, Tight - Aggressive. Bet when you have the hand, fold when you don't. Just develop the basic ABC poker skills now that is all that are needed to beat 2nl. (courtesy Willburforce)

8. Here's what you do now:

1) Beat current limit.
2) Build Bankroll.
3) Move up.
4) Repeat.
5) Profit.

also, it's way harder than it sounds, definitely be prepared to experience
3a) lose at current limit
& 3b) move down - (courtesy Daven)

good luck!!

Thanks flomo so far so good

I played yesterday and just concentrated on making the best descisions I could at the table - also I was speaking to others in IRC about what to do when you have position on limpers - and have since opened up my raising range behind them - which is working pretty well.

The buy ins are looking after themselves niceley, played 88 hands yesterday evening and averaged 55 bb/100 . Just finished another hour session 4 tabling and was about the same winrate. Not that I'm giving much attention to winrate while I'm playing for now, just nice to be moving the BR up for a change rather than down

I started my session today great but made a costly mistake - had a maniac at my table, he was raising with average hands alot and was raising very big. When he went all in and I was holding JJ's I called and stacked him he had 55s...

I made the mistake of wanting to get into more pots with him and widened my range (not intentionally didn't notice until I reviewed my hands!) - I ended up stacking off with AQ after he raised pre and I re-raised and he called and then we both hit Aces on the flop and he shoved but he had AK.

I need to remember that just because someones a maniac it doesn't mean they wont have any nuts hands.

Also the same guy cost me later - I raised with 10's UTG and got re-raised in MP. This maniac in CO shoved (150bb) I thought he's doing this with 55+ AJ+ so I shoved over the top 200bb - but got called by two behind me, the original 3better had KK's... I need to remember that when you have tagged a fish - just because you have his mark doesn't mean you can ignore the others at the table in an attempt to get into more pots with him.

After - that I decided to stop for a bit and just absorb that little bit of knowledge. Even after those I still ended the 1 hour at 55bb/100 so am pleased.

As long as I continue to make good descisions at the table and learn from my bad ones I think I'll be OK. The good thing with 2nl is you can afford to make mistakes to learn from and still end the session up, I've only played a couple of sessions with the strategy I outlined recently but so far it's the best I've played - so hopefully it'll continue!

well done Slevin. Sounds like your heading in the right direction finally.

And what you said about mistakes is true, you can get away with them more at micro's. And the micros' is defo the place to be learning from your mistakes, because as you move up, they start costing.

What you need to be doing is cutting your mistakes down and profitting on other peoples.

GL

My last shot at 2nl worked a little better than usual but still ended a bit too prematurely. There were a number of reasons for this but the main reason was that I didn't follow the rules of the game well enough. That is I didn't follow the PF strategy advice to the letter, and when I did I got too involved in post flop hands that I had no business being involved with.

This meant that I lost far too many pots which meant that I started a downward losing streak... etc... etc...

I've spent a good few hours recently going over pre-flop strategy guidelines, I've been using spoons which I posted earlier in the thread and also rentons here: http://www.flopturnriver.com/Small-S...y-Preflop.html

Renton has confirmed that his starting hands will work well in 2nl.

As I type this I'm in a library - I've been condensing my main preflop strategy into one side of A4 so I can have it by my side when I next play (which should be tonight). Both approaches were quite simmiliar with the exception that with Rentions a number of the high IO hands are being limped for IO, and in spoons in late position they are being raised.

I've also got a better idea about what the criteria is for 'good implied odds now' - following the advice in the Renton strategy guide, I'll be looking for 15+ effective stack size for lower PP's, and 20-25 for SC's that won't hold their own if they only connect to form a pair on the flop.

Also I don't want to be stacking off with one pair post flop if I stand to lose 200b or more, I had an idea about this, but Rentons advice kind of codified the vague idea for me. As per Rentons advice I'll be looking for implied odds type hands against the big stacks and will not be content to stack off with top pairs when playing for 200bbs+

Question: I do have a question though on a fairly non drawy board... such as T 7 3 rainbow, if I have Aces should I be happy to stack off here for 200bb+, or would the Aces fall into the same category that I've just mentioned when against another deepstack?

- The next area for development now is early post-flop play. I.e how do I play once I've seen a flop, for now until I learn more I'm going to be unprepared to put any more money into the pot unless I have 1. at least top pair, or 2. unless I'm cbetting against one opponent. Or 3. unless the odds for my draw warrant a call. I think the answer to developing this part of my game is just playing more and getting comments on hands. Providing I don't make donk moves that should be fairly easy at 2nl as sound strategy minus donk moves should see an increase in BR - instead of the drop I usually start seeing within a day or so.

I'm also still on a mission to work on my discipline issues, disicipline in a hand (i.e. folding when not a favourite or odds don't justfy a call), discipline not to play higher stakes (I still do this when I start losing and it has to stop), discipline to ignore the short term results and concentrate on my growth.

I've got a fair bit out of my time at the library, I'm going to start doing this more often - aside from anything else it puts you in the right frame of mind for when you return, having just spent 4-5 hours studying and going over my notes I'm sure I'm going to be a lot less inclined to start making donk moves.

I've noticed also that when I'm at the same table as a member of FTR and we are talking I'm much less likely to make donk moves, the effect is huge, not because they are telling me things I don't already know - but because in their presence I don't want to be making donk moves. I think back to the last day I played a couple of days ago when wellrounded was at my table after asking if I minded if he joined - we were chatting away through IRC as we were playing, talking about how tight the table was, and generally sharing our thoughts on the hands as were playing them.

For about 100 hands we did this and both steadily increased our stacks, however when wellrounded left I found myself starting to make calls / or stupid re-raises I just knew in the back of my mind were -ev but made them anyway because I thought... ' I could take the pot down, or because I thought I was being bluffed..'

I know that poker is a long term game and yet sometimes the situation gets the better of me. That's going to be the greatest determinator of whether or not I can beat these stakes now I think, my discipline in the actual hand. There's not much more I can learn about pre-flop strategy for beating 2nl that I don't already know. I also know that I need to fold when I'm beat. The key is going to be doing that regularly and religiously.

By getting everything down onto that one A4 sheet I mentioned earlier - and referring to it with every hand that I play - with a bit of luck I'll start making the right descisions with more regularlity and start winning.

I'm standing at a gate now and have been for sometime at this early stage of my poker journey, and only I can make the move - and open it.

I was looking at undergrad degrees today - the time I've taken out of the working life grind (I left my job in September) has been a great opportunity for me to reassess where things are going. While I was looking into the possibility of going back to University and getting a degree the idea came back to me that I had ages ago - about just how long term poker is. It's time for me to remember that to earn decent money at poker you need to give it a couple of years to blossom into something worthwhile, just like you would with any worthwhile pursuit. I'll do well to remember this over the coming weeks/months.

The journey continues - the focus for the coming week or so is going to be folding when I know I should, and sticking to just 2nl.

- oh I forgot to mention I did have some little success last week =) I placed 87th in the high SNG orbit for the mecury division ($1+ sngs) of the SNG leaderboards on Stars- (for the high division you need to play 100 within a week), I won $5 for placing 87th - but it was the fact that I actually achieved something concrete that was really rewarding. As much as I enjoy the finite nature of the SNGs and the SNG leaderboards, I think 2nl is where I need to be right now developing solid ABC skills and some basic cash skills - so that's where I'm going to stay for now.

I'd like to go back to the SNGs at some point in the future, because I do enjoy them, I actually prefer them to 2nl, I enjoy the variety in game dynamics more - early play, bubble play, and ITM play. But I hear cash play is usually more profitable and a better introduction to sound fundamentals... I'm sure I'll enjoy cash play more once I beat a limit and start moving up - so for now I'm going to put the SNGs on hold and just continue to concentrate on 2nl, and making the right choices at the table.

Wow Slevin I just spent a while reading the first 1/2 of this op and a few along the way down the rest.

I would like to give you a piece of advice but to be honest I don't think you'll take it. I think you'll do what I see you doing all along this thread, you say "Yes, good idea, thank you for the input," you might even repeat it, and then you go and do something else.

Here's my advice.
1. Take an hour or two before your next session.
2. Get a piece of paper and pen.
3. Read this op from start to finish and jot down EVERY time you say you're going to do something in one column (for example - On such and such date I said I would 1 table until I hit $x).
4. EVERY time you come across a situation where you did the OPPOSITE of what is in the first column, write it down in the second column (on such and such date I was 8 tabling).
5. Sit back and reflect.

I think you will be shocked dude. Reflect on all this spinning of your wheels.

Find a game you can win within your BR. Play it. Stop all this switching. One day you're SnGs, next you're FR, next your 6 max, back to SnGs. Then you're moving up limits?
Pick the game you can win. Win. Make it your bread and butter. Play that same game until you can crush it with your eyes closed. Savor the winning.

Thanks for reading my blog Kijjo. Yeah disicipline is definately my number one hurdle, I know that from past experience. That talk about spinning the wheels is a great analogy because that's exactly where I've been so far pretty much stuck in neutral.

I was speaking to spoon today about where I last went wrong and it started with tilt, this is usually the blame when I look back at some of my other past mistakes. Tilt is something I need to sort before I can progress and it all ties back in with discipline. I'm going to really work on being able to just walk away if I feel myself tilted in future. That A4 page I mentioned also is helping alot, I have a lot of reminders on there and because they are all on the same page I'm constantly referring to them during the game that helps quite a bit.

I guess if it wasn't for my determination I'd have given up quite a while ago so that is a plus that I can take out of my failed attempts so far. As things go at the moment discipline is the only thing thats stopping me from progressing so with every new push - that's the number one area I'm working on, trust me.

Things have started well so far - played for 3.75 hours today 3-4 tabling and ran at 25.3BB/100 over 414 hands so a good start. Just concentrating on solid descisions and hopefully the results'll take care of themselves. God willing I might actually crack the discipline thing this time around and move out of neutral. Next session tomorrow, I'll keep you guys posted. Cheers !

Only read a little.

Don't play deep until you're more comfortable 100bb deep. You'll start to realize who it's profitable for you to play that deep vs, and who you'd just be swapping stacks.

i hope you win the WSOP Main Event some day.

Thanks guys. Well just finished my second session of the new push, and it wasn't great results wise - down about 6 buy ins. But I didn't tilt - and I did stop when I felt like a break which is progress. The hands I lost were a combination of bad beats and just my own stupid plays.. I thought it was weighted like 90/10 in favour of bad beats until I did this review and found there were alot more donk moves than I thought =(

Need to cut the donk moves out next session and just continue to put up with the bad beats I think hopefully it'll come good!

1. my 4 and a bit buy in pot bad beat =(

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($5.16)
BB ($0.84)
UTG ($0.96)
MP1 ($4.52)
MP2 ($6.03)
Hero (CO) ($2.87)
Button ($5)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, Q
1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.08, MP2 raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.22

Flop: ($0.93) 6, 3, Q (3 players)
MP1 bets $0.32, MP2 calls $0.32, Hero calls $0.32

Turn: ($1.89) 3 (3 players)
MP1 bets $1.36, MP2 raises to $5.41 (All-In), Hero calls $2.25 (All-In), 1 fold

River: ($7.75) K (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $7.75 | Rake: $0.35

Results in white below:
MP2 had K, K (full house, Kings over threes).
Hero mucked Q, Q (full house, Queens over threes).
Outcome: MP2 won $7.40

2. Donk hand - totally my fault.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($5)
Button ($4.97)
Hero (SB) ($2.77)
BB ($5.02)
UTG ($3.44)
UTG+1 ($4.79)
MP1 ($4.25)
MP2 ($4.56)
MP3 ($1.38)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Button calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.28) 4, Q, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks

Turn: ($0.28) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.15, MP1 raises to $0.82, Hero calls $0.67

River: ($1.92) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.83 (All-In), MP1 calls $1.83

Total pot: $5.58 | Rake: $0.25

Results in white below:
Hero had 8, 8 (two pair, eights and threes).
MP1 had 2, 3 (three of a kind, threes).
Outcome: MP1 won $5.33

3.Another donk hand I think...


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($2.25)
UTG ($2.21)
UTG+1 ($1.06)
MP1 ($3.44)
MP2 ($1.94)
MP3 ($2.23)
CO ($2.67)
Button ($5.08)
SB ($1.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 5
4 folds, MP3 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.05) K, 6, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.04, MP3 raises to $0.16, Hero calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.37) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.36, Hero calls $0.36

River: ($1.09) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.71 (All-In), MP3 calls $1.69 (All-In)

Total pot: $4.47 | Rake: $0.20

Results in white below:
Hero had 7, 5 (high card, King).
MP3 had K, 4 (two pair, Kings and fours).
Outcome: MP3 won $4.27

4. bad beat

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) ($1.99)
MP1 ($5.16)
MP2 ($3.76)
CO ($1)
Button ($11.25)
SB ($4.48)
BB ($2.99)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A
Hero raises to $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08, 2 folds, Button raises to $0.16, 1 fold, BB calls $0.14, Hero raises to $0.60, 1 fold, Button calls $0.44, BB calls $0.44

Flop: ($1.91) K, J, K (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.39 (All-In), 1 fold, BB calls $1.39

Turn: ($4.69) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.69) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.69 | Rake: $0.20

Results in white below:
BB had Q, 10 (straight, King high).
Hero mucked K, A (three of a kind, Kings).
Outcome: BB won $4.49

5. AK not connecting with flop - should I be happy to get it all in pre here or be more cautious?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($2.93)
CO ($1.40)
Button ($1.16)
SB ($3.11)
BB ($2)
UTG ($9.20)
UTG+1 ($4.95)
MP1 ($2.02)
Hero (MP2) ($1.97)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K
UTG raises to $0.16, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.45, 1 fold, CO raises to $1.39 (All-In), 3 folds, UTG calls $1.23, Hero raises to $1.97 (All-In), UTG calls $0.58

Flop: ($5.36) 8, 5, 8 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($5.36) 3 (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($5.36) 4 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.36 | Rake: $0.25

Results in white below:
UTG had 6, 6 (two pair, eights and sixes).
Hero mucked A, K (one pair, eights).
CO mucked A, K (one pair, eights).
Outcome: UTG won $5.12

6. Another donk hand.. There are more of these than I thought there were, which is something I need to sort out...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.51)
Button ($2.86)
SB ($2.11)
BB ($3.51)
UTG ($4.71)
Hero (UTG+1) ($1.97)
MP1 ($0.96)
MP2 ($5.01)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9, 9
UTG raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $0.24, 4 folds, UTG calls $0.16, Hero calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.75) 6, 10, Q (3 players)
UTG bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.70, MP2 raises to $4.77 (All-In), UTG calls $4.17 (All-In), Hero calls $0.03 (All-In)

Turn: ($11.42) K (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($11.42) 7 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $11.42 | Rake: $0.55

Results in white below:
UTG had Q, 10 (two pair, Queens and tens).
Hero mucked 9, 9 (one pair, nines).
MP2 mucked A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: UTG won $10.87

7. bad beat on the river

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.98)
Hero (Button) ($1.98)
SB ($2.09)
BB ($1)
UTG ($1.52)
MP1 ($6.57)
MP2 ($0.77)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
UTG calls $0.02, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.10, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.23) 6, 3, 9 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.25, UTG calls $0.19

Turn: ($0.73) 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.12, Hero raises to $1.63 (All-In), UTG calls $1.05 (All-In)

River: ($3.07) K (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $3.07 | Rake: $0.15

Results in white below:
Hero mucked J, J (two pair, Jacks and sixes).
UTG had 9, K (two pair, Kings and nines).
Outcome: UTG won $2.92

8.. played this badly

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($5.18)
CO ($0.84)
Button ($1.02)
SB ($3.90)
BB ($4.84)
Hero (UTG) ($4.72)
UTG+1 ($5.03)
MP1 ($2.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, Q
Hero raises to $0.08, 6 folds, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) 2, 2, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.15, BB raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.97) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $0.90, Hero calls $0.90

River: ($2.77) 7 (2 players)
BB bets $3.46 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $2.77 | Rake: $0.10

Results in white below:
BB didn't show
Outcome: BB won $2.67

9. couldn't put my kings down

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($4.20)
Button ($3.41)
SB ($5)
BB ($1.04)
UTG ($1.22)
Hero (UTG+1) ($2.85)
MP1 ($3.48)
MP2 ($2.38)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, K
UTG raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, 6 folds, UTG calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.39) 2, A, 10 (2 players)
UTG bets $1.04 (All-In), Hero calls $1.04

Turn: ($2.47) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($2.47) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $2.47 | Rake: $0.10

Results in white below:
UTG had A, 10 (full house, Aces over tens).
Hero mucked K, K (two pair, Aces and Kings).
Outcome: UTG won $2.37

had a quick look at hands. Seems you're still doing a lot of the "fancy play" stuff. Most of those hands (as you know) are clear folds on the flop or turn. Just check/fold that stuff, wait for a better spot. Stop trying to push people off hands. Its really not necessary at $2nl.

1. how does $7.75 = 4+ buy ins at 2nl
2. why are you not cbetting flop, why do you call the turn bet?
3. why are you calling PSB's here, why do you shove river?
6. why are you reraising the flop?
7.why are you overbetting the turn?
8. why are you calling the flop and turn bets?

Hand 1: QQ Ouch
Hand 2: 88 Probably a limp in the SB here, you aren't going to fold everyone with that raise, and you are going to be OOP with a weak hand for the rest of it (except for the 1/10 times you hit your set...). Seeing as you raised Pre, you HAVE to C-bet/fold that flop... I don't like the turn call at all, just give it up. Sure he was bluffing, but you don't need to win these type of hands yet...
Hand 3: 75o Don't chase! Villian denied you pot odds on both the flop and turn. Just FOLD man! Overbet bluff on river looks EXACTLY like what it is, a bluff. Maybe you would do that with a flush also, but you would still expect him to call there also wouldn't you?
Hand 4: AKo I wouldn't get in the habit of 4-betting AKo Pre when you have a BB that flat called a 3-bet. You're asking for a world of trouble. Flop is fine, though, the BB would NEVER fold the OERFD there.
Hand 5: AKs Learn to fold in this situation. This is a fairly easy spot to fold AK; You 3-bet a HUGE (8xBB) UTG raise and then the CO, who has NOTHING INVESTED, pushes over your bet, and then the UTG original raiser CALLS! Even if these idiots are playing 75/50, one of them has to have some kind of pair, and the other probably has one (or more) of your potential outs. With AK, you want to be putting pressure on people to FOLD, you don't want to be CALLING all in with them.
Hand 6: 99 OMG Pre-flop is borderline ok for SET-VALUE. But then it's a 3-bet pot on the flop and you missed your set. FOLD TO ANYTHING. Do NOT bluff with 3rd pair in a 3-bet pot with 2 other players!
Hand 7: JJ Actually very well played IMO. Raising over donk-bets with an overpair is a good idea.
Hand 8: AQo Some people actually will tell you to fold this UTG in FR. Not me... But folding the flop is SUPER SIMPLE. Or the turn. Remember, a check/raise means strength, it actually is NOT a bluff most of the time...Depending on villian, you can fold an overpair here sometimes also (on the turn or river)
Hand 9: KK Pre-flop 3-bet could be a little larger, but only a small mistake. It's hard to fold this in the heat of the moment sometimes, but just slow down for a second when you see a huge overbet like this, don't make snap decisions. There isn't anything scary about this flop, so why is he overbetting so much? He is hoping you have an Ace and can't lay it down, like 90% of the other fish down there. After you realize that, it's an easy fold! Depressing, but easy.

In short Stop trying to make people fold

Thanks for all your comments I really appreciate them, and especially thanks to you Chris that was a very big help you go going over the hands individually like that I really appreciate your time.

Going to play another session in a bit and will make sure I'm not making the same mistakes twice. Thanks guys.

I'm not one for giving advice as I'm a poker nobody, but IMO u should move up to $0.02/$0.05 NLHE. Deposit the required amount into your account as per proper bankroll management guidelines and play your TAGG game there.

There is very little difference between play money tables and $0.01/$0.02 tables. How many times have u seen players push all in on a nothing pot pre-flop and get multiple callers with no one even has a pair? I've seen it a ton. The crazy/don't care players do their thing at the absolute cheapest game available. I'd be willing to bet U get better results at the next higher stake b/c more players actually "play poker" instead of this "push and catch" thing you see at the pennies. And the competition wont be that stiff as big sharks don't lurk in shallow waters. Just my two cents (pun intended).

Take it for what it's worth. I'm far from an expert.

Originally Posted by nibbles

I'm not one for giving advice as I'm a poker nobody, but IMO u should move up to $0.02/$0.05 NLHE. Deposit the required amount into your account as per proper bankroll management guidelines and play your TAGG game there.

There is very little difference between play money tables and $0.01/$0.02 tables. How many times have u seen players push all in on a nothing pot pre-flop and get multiple callers with no one even has a pair? I've seen it a ton. The crazy/don't care players do their thing at the absolute cheapest game available. I'd be willing to bet U get better results at the next higher stake b/c more players actually "play poker" instead of this "push and catch" thing you see at the pennies. And the competition wont be that stiff as big sharks don't lurk in shallow waters. Just my two cents (pun intended).

Take it for what it's worth. I'm far from an expert.

Thanks for the comments nibbles!

Don't worry wilburforce the new improved slevin is sticking to his goals this time around! =)

Just finished a 3 hour session - played about 340 hands, and the end of the session picked up nicely, ran at 44BB/100 which was very nice so am up just over 3 buyins so very nice! Long may it continue =)

attaboy slevin, stay and keep it tagg =win

End day 2
Well things are going well as I finish day 2 of my op. Just finished the final session of the day and it was another good one, at 40.84BB/100 over 292 hands. Which means I've now pulled myself back up from that 6 buyin downswing session earlier this morning.

I've proved to myself that I can now lose a few (well 6 which was a bit worrying at the time but... hey) buy ins without losing all self-control. I'm also gradually getting better at shrugging bad beats off - still a ways to go but getting there.

Since I started one and a half days ago I've put in 13 hours of play and played 1863 hands. Things as everyone knows haven't been plain sailing with my past stabs at climbing the micro ladder - but I think my poker may finally be on the up at last. Not going to put any pressure on myself though - just going to continue to play solid ABC poker and let the rest take care of itself. Looking forward to tomorrow, hopefully things will continue on the up

Day 3
I've played two sessions so far today totalling 600 hands, and am down 5 buy ins. I can honestly say beating 2nl is the hardest thing I've ever tried to do in my life.

Will play another session later tonight, In between my two sessions today I rewrote my notes and watched jyms video over at grinderschool (the free one) - it'll be nice taking out a subscription there once I move up to 10nl. The journey continues...

-5BIs? Any hands for review/help?

Practice/grinding is good, as long as you are not enforcing bad habits!

Dude, Not to be a dick but you need to put poker down. It just isn't going to work for you. Also PLEASE, never start doing drugs, drinking, smoking, or anything else addicting. It will ruin your life!! You just don't have the personality for this game.

There were a number of reasons for this but the main reason was that I didn't follow the rules of the game well enough. That is I didn't follow the PF strategy advice to the letter, and when I did I got too involved in post flop hands that I had no business being involved with

I know that poker is a long term game and yet sometimes the situation gets the better of me. That's going to be the greatest determinator of whether or not I can beat these stakes now I think, my discipline in the actual hand. There's not much more I can learn about pre-flop strategy for beating 2nl that I don't already know. I also know that I need to fold when I'm beat. The key is going to be doing that regularly and religiously.

Those two quotes say it all. I have read all of your operations threads and it is clear that you have taken a lot of time reading, studying, outlining, and regurgitating poker strategy. You have actually put in writing more strategy than I employ with any regularity beating 25NL-100NL and you are no further along then when you started. This game isn't for everyone. It's your personality man, nothing you can do about it.

If you want to continue playing poker in any meaningful way you need to put down the strategy books and start taking a look at self help books IMO. Patience, self control, accountability. These are the areas you need to master first. Don't even bother with poker strategy until your figured these out. Good luck!

Thanks Chris I've just had a review of the biggest losing hands, there are still a few that are just donk moves (like I go all in as a bluff on the river or something) - but there are far fewer of those I think only one or two in my 600 hand sessions today. Anyway I'll let you guys be the judge hopefully you can offer some thoughts.

These are my 8 biggest losing hands so far today.

1.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($4.68)
Hero (MP2) ($3.12)
CO ($6.55)
Button ($4.10)
SB ($4.17)
BB ($6.06)
UTG ($3.26)
UTG+1 ($0.41)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, A
UTG raises to $0.06, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.16, 2 folds, SB calls $0.15, BB calls $0.14, UTG raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.08, SB raises to $4.17 (All-In), 1 fold, UTG calls $2.86 (All-In), Hero calls $2.04 (All-In)

Flop: ($9.80) J, K, 2 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: ($9.80) 7 (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($9.80) 6 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $9.80 | Rake: $0.45

Results in white below:
SB had 5, 5 (one pair, fives).
UTG had K, K (three of a kind, Kings).
Hero mucked A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: UTG won $9.35

2.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($0.97)
SB ($4.94)
BB ($6.08)
UTG ($1.72)
UTG+1 ($1.96)
MP1 ($0.96)
MP2 ($1.97)
Hero (MP3) ($2.78)
CO ($5)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J, A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.04, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.04, 3 folds, BB calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.13) 10, K, Q (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.26, Hero raises to $0.52, BB calls $0.52, UTG+1 calls $0.26

Turn: ($1.69) Q (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.20, Hero raises to $2.22 (All-In), BB calls $2.22, 1 fold

River: ($6.33) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $6.33 | Rake: $0.30

Results in white below:
BB had 5, 9 (flush, King high).
Hero mucked J, A (straight, Ace high).
Outcome: BB won $6.03

3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($4.89)
Button ($2.15)
SB ($4.86)
BB ($1.95)
Hero (UTG) ($2.12)
UTG+1 ($3.14)
MP1 ($5.82)
MP2 ($0.97)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
Hero raises to $0.08, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.14, 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, MP1 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.51) 5, 9, A (2 players)
Hero bets $1.88 (All-In), MP1 calls $1.88

Turn: ($4.27) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.27) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.27 | Rake: $0.20

Results in white below:
Hero had K, K (one pair, Kings).
MP1 had 3, A (two pair, Aces and threes).
Outcome: MP1 won $4.07

4.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($2.83)
UTG ($2.53)
UTG+1 ($2.85)
MP1 ($5.08)
MP2 ($5.53)
CO ($2.91)
Hero (Button) ($2.41)
SB ($0.98)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 7
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP1 raises to $0.12, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.12, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.51) 9, 10, 5 (4 players)
UTG bets $0.06, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.06, Hero raises to $0.12, UTG raises to $0.26, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, UTG raises to $2.41 (All-In), Hero calls $1.89 (All-In)

Turn: ($5.15) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($5.15) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.15 | Rake: $0.25

Results in white below:
Hero mucked K, 7 (one pair, tens).
UTG had 10, 10 (four of a kind, tens).
Outcome: UTG won $4.90

5.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.87)
Hero (Button) ($3.48)
SB ($2.01)
BB ($6.09)
UTG ($1.40)
UTG+1 ($2.10)
MP1 ($2.96)
MP2 ($3.01)
MP3 ($5.37)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, A
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.19) 10, 10, Q (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.14, UTG+1 calls $0.14

Turn: ($0.47) K (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.40, UTG+1 calls $0.40

River: ($1.27) 2 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2.86 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $1.48 (All-In)

Total pot: $4.23 | Rake: $0.20

Results in white below:
Hero had 9, A (one pair, tens).
UTG+1 had 10, Q (full house, tens over Queens).
Outcome: UTG+1 won $4.03

6.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($2.91)
MP1 ($4.06)
MP2 ($2.88)
CO ($2.58)
Button ($3.46)
SB ($3.66)
Hero (BB) ($2)
UTG ($3.66)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Button calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero raises to $0.14, UTG+1 calls $0.12, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.34) 10, 4, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, UTG+1 calls $0.30

Turn: ($0.94) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.02, Hero calls $0.02

River: ($0.98) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.54 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $1.54

Total pot: $4.06 | Rake: $0.20

Results in white below:
Hero had A, Q (two pair, tens and fives).
UTG+1 had 5, 7 (full house, fives over tens).
Outcome: UTG+1 won $3.86

7.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($1.87)
SB ($6.94)
Hero (BB) ($2)
UTG ($4.23)
UTG+1 ($2.96)
MP1 ($0.54)
MP2 ($2.32)
MP3 ($1.95)
CO ($1.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, A
UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.02, 1 fold, CO calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero raises to $0.16, 2 folds, CO calls $0.14, 1 fold, SB calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.54) 10, 8, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.35, CO raises to $1.74 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $1.39

Turn: ($4.02) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.02) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.02 | Rake: $0.20

Results in white below:
Hero had 10, A (two pair, Aces and tens).
CO had J, Q (straight, Queen high).
Outcome: CO won $3.82

8.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.29)
Hero (Button) ($7.04)
SB ($2.62)
BB ($2.37)
UTG ($2.17)
MP1 ($2.53)
MP2 ($1.68)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, 1 fold, BB calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.51) 9, J, 9 (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, CO bets $0.25, Hero raises to $6.92 (All-In), 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.56 (All-In), 1 fold

Turn: ($3.88) 2 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($3.88) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $3.88 | Rake: $0.15

Results in white below:
Hero mucked A, A (two pair, Aces and nines).
MP2 had 9, J (full house, nines over Jacks).
Outcome: MP2 won $3.73

Originally Posted by Primus Sucks

Dude, Not to be a dick but you need to put poker down. It just isn't going to work for you. Also PLEASE, never start doing drugs, drinking, smoking, or anything else addicting. It will ruin your life!! You just don't have the personality for this game.

There were a number of reasons for this but the main reason was that I didn't follow the rules of the game well enough. That is I didn't follow the PF strategy advice to the letter, and when I did I got too involved in post flop hands that I had no business being involved with

I know that poker is a long term game and yet sometimes the situation gets the better of me. That's going to be the greatest determinator of whether or not I can beat these stakes now I think, my discipline in the actual hand. There's not much more I can learn about pre-flop strategy for beating 2nl that I don't already know. I also know that I need to fold when I'm beat. The key is going to be doing that regularly and religiously.

Those two quotes say it all. I have read all of your operations threads and it is clear that you have taken a lot of time reading, studying, outlining, and regurgitating poker strategy. You have actually put in writing more strategy than I employ with any regularity beating 25NL-100NL and you are no further along then when you started. This game isn't for everyone. It's your personality man, nothing you can do about it.

If you want to continue playing poker in any meaningful way you need to put down the strategy books and start taking a look at self help books IMO. Patience, self control, accountability. These are the areas you need to master first. Don't even bother with poker strategy until your figured these out. Good luck!

Primus. When you feel the need to premise your post with 'not to be a dick' it might be wise to ask yourself why that is - what is it about your post that made you feel the need to qualify it in that way? But anyway thanks for your input. I'm not addicted to poker, I'm just not a quitter. The two quotes you posted were sequential - i.e. one after the other, the later one was in part response to analysis of the situation that led to the first one. Things are actually moving along very nicely now with the poker - the perserverance has paid off and I'm already starting to see the fruits of the hard work I have put in, and the expert guidence and analysis I've received through FTR. Good luck in your own poker journey, I hope you feel as satisfied as I'm starting to feel now - I mean that! It's a great feeling. & to anyone reading this that may be struggling with 2nl just persevere you will get there, be open to advice and work hard - there's no substitute for hard work.

Here is a summary of my 2nl journey since I installed PT at some point last week. I'm only 4 buyins short of breaking even over the stretch and given that I'm losing a fair few coin flips lately, and am also still making donk all in moves - it shouldn't take too long now before I start beating 2nl.



we're getting there

Originally Posted by Primus Sucks

Dude, Not to be a dick but you need to put poker down. It just isn't going to work for you. Also PLEASE, never start doing drugs, drinking, smoking, or anything else addicting. It will ruin your life!! You just don't have the personality for this game.

There were a number of reasons for this but the main reason was that I didn't follow the rules of the game well enough. That is I didn't follow the PF strategy advice to the letter, and when I did I got too involved in post flop hands that I had no business being involved with

I know that poker is a long term game and yet sometimes the situation gets the better of me. That's going to be the greatest determinator of whether or not I can beat these stakes now I think, my discipline in the actual hand. There's not much more I can learn about pre-flop strategy for beating 2nl that I don't already know. I also know that I need to fold when I'm beat. The key is going to be doing that regularly and religiously.

Those two quotes say it all. I have read all of your operations threads and it is clear that you have taken a lot of time reading, studying, outlining, and regurgitating poker strategy. You have actually put in writing more strategy than I employ with any regularity beating 25NL-100NL and you are no further along then when you started. This game isn't for everyone. It's your personality man, nothing you can do about it.

If you want to continue playing poker in any meaningful way you need to put down the strategy books and start taking a look at self help books IMO. Patience, self control, accountability. These are the areas you need to master first. Don't even bother with poker strategy until your figured these out. Good luck!

I don't know how you can make this post with any authority but there is a lot of value in the bolded above.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Originally Posted by Primus Sucks

Dude, Not to be a dick but you need to put poker down. It just isn't going to work for you. Also PLEASE, never start doing drugs, drinking, smoking, or anything else addicting. It will ruin your life!! You just don't have the personality for this game.

There were a number of reasons for this but the main reason was that I didn't follow the rules of the game well enough. That is I didn't follow the PF strategy advice to the letter, and when I did I got too involved in post flop hands that I had no business being involved with

I know that poker is a long term game and yet sometimes the situation gets the better of me. That's going to be the greatest determinator of whether or not I can beat these stakes now I think, my discipline in the actual hand. There's not much more I can learn about pre-flop strategy for beating 2nl that I don't already know. I also know that I need to fold when I'm beat. The key is going to be doing that regularly and religiously.

Those two quotes say it all. I have read all of your operations threads and it is clear that you have taken a lot of time reading, studying, outlining, and regurgitating poker strategy. You have actually put in writing more strategy than I employ with any regularity beating 25NL-100NL and you are no further along then when you started. This game isn't for everyone. It's your personality man, nothing you can do about it.

If you want to continue playing poker in any meaningful way you need to put down the strategy books and start taking a look at self help books IMO. Patience, self control, accountability. These are the areas you need to master first. Don't even bother with poker strategy until your figured these out. Good luck!

I don't know how you can make this post with any authority but there is a lot of value in the bolded above.

I apologize if I overstepped my bounds. I realize that I am new to the community and meant no disrespect to the forum regulars.

I'm only at the micro level too but here's what I see from those hands:

Hand 1: Crappy cooler. However, AA really loses value when you are all in against two other hands - if you're every in this position again try to isolate one guy and it will make your odds even better.
Hand 2: He slowplayed a flush and got your stack - good for him. You probably should have raised more on the flop just to make sure that he actually had a hand and prevent someone with one club from calling. He could have just as easily had KQ with that line and you also would have lost. You pushed too quickly IMO.
Hand 3: You pushed too fast again. When an A hits the flop you have to be able to lay KK down especially when he 3 bet preflop.
Hand 4: Why did you call this pfr? Easy fold preflop. Then you called an all in bet with a flush draw. You deserved to get stacked.
Hand 5: When he smooth calls both your bets after checking alarm bells should go off. Then you pushed again! If you had check/folded to the river with the ACE HIGH that you had you wouldn't have lost this.
Hand 6: I don't know why he called that flop bet - he should have folded but this you played properly even though again you pushed with a hand you shouldn't have.
Hand 7: You should have been able to lay this down to a push on the flop but you stil called with TPTK.
Hand 8: Another laydown you could have made if you hadn't pushed.

See a trend? You push way too much and it's usually with hands and boards that you should be able to read better. You are way too eager to get it all in the middle and deal with a coin flip situation. True solid poker players get themselves in front before they make that move. I see at least four of those hands that if you had thought about what was going on and done the appropriate thing they were easy laydowns and you save yourself several buyins.

Take it for what it's worth. Learn how to FOLD.

Here's a 2nl pro tip: if you bluff twice in the same hand you fucked up.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($4.89)
Button ($2.15)
SB ($4.86)
BB ($1.95)
Hero (UTG) ($2.12)
UTG+1 ($3.14)
MP1 ($5.82)
MP2 ($0.97)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
Hero raises to $0.08, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.14, 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, MP1 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.51) 5, 9, A (2 players)
Hero bets $1.88 (All-In)

WAT!

sick value 3 bet and then bluff shove!

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

sick value 3 bet and then bluff shove!

He had like 25c invested... pot committed IMO. let's just give the remaining $1.88 cause if we gonna call a bet, might as well bet ourselves!

mucho gracias seigneurs - would be like trying to play poker in the dark without all of your wisdom, day by day I'm a stronger player for it.

End day 3

Well despite that rather melodramatic 'this is the hardest thing i've ever done in my life post earlier' ... cutting the donk bets out is really helping my bottom line. Just finished the last session of the day, I played for 2.6 hours, and ran at 27.5BB/100 for 412 hands. As I'm seeing more winning sessions its becoming more and more enjoyable.

This means I'm just over half a buy in down on the day which i'm very pleased with considering I was 5 down at lunchtime. The losing sessions as you guys saw from the hands I'm posting are at least 50% donk moves on my part. Tomorrows plan is to cut them out completely. Start with the mentality I started the last session today with, 'I will not make any donk bets - default action, fold rather than call'. If the hands not good enough to be raising it's probabally not good enough to be calling with - so thats going to be tomorrows focus.

Another good day. The poker grinding muscles are developing, and I know I have what it takes to pull a winning session out when I need it, I just need to make it the default now - instead of only mustering it to save a losing first session! =)

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

3.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($4.89)
Button ($2.15)
SB ($4.86)
BB ($1.95)
Hero (UTG) ($2.12)
UTG+1 ($3.14)
MP1 ($5.82)
MP2 ($0.97)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
Hero raises to $0.08, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.14, 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, MP1 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.51) 5, 9, A (2 players)
Hero bets $1.88 (All-In)

I remember when I used to do this

Slevin... Seriously? STOP BLUFFING.

Try it for at least one session. Don't make a SINGLE bluff. All your bets need to be for value. Don't bet on the flop without TPTK or better. With few exceptions (Hand 1 for sure) nearly all of those hands are quite bad.