Spotting Sets - How NOT to play AA

There have been a few newbies askin' about how to spot sets, how to avoid stacking off to them, how to avoid seeing them everywhere and folding too often. This one is classic. Villain is 10/8/0.5.

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25.13)
CO ($39.29)
Hero ($80.76)
SB ($49.50)
BB ($37.68)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 5 players) Hero is BTN
1 fold, CO raises to $0.85, Hero raises to $3.15, 2 folds, CO calls $2.3

Flop: ($6.65, 2 players)
CO bets $3, Hero raises to $15.65, CO goes all-in $36.14, Hero ??

I played it like a total dumbass. I knew I was beat and should have folded, but hadn't seen a decent hand in forever, yada, yada, blah, blah... You can see it here:

http://weaktight.com/171706

How does this help?

Originally Posted by swiggidy

How does this help?

Maybe I won't do it again if I post it

A smaller flop raise is sufficient imo.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

A smaller flop raise is sufficient imo.

True, I still don't get away without a better read.

(not saying it's right, but I'm not fearing sets when they'll stack with AJ or worse)

I raise smaller like swigg and get it in on that flop.

I would have to know if villain's stats were from full ring or 6-max before I comment much more on whether or not I would stack off.

Against this particular villain, it's not particularly bad. Against only sets or AJ, we're not that far behind, but I don't think he plays KJ this way.

I think QQ can def be in his range too and a "tricky" KK sometimes. Basically JJ, AJ, QQ, KK sometimes imo.

5x 3bet on the flop? 15 to win 9 if you arent beat. You really leave yourself no room to fold if you were going to.

Meh. I felt this alot

That being said I'm still stacking off here cause we're way ahead of AJ, KK,QQ and KsQs played meh.

Not felting AA here is results oriented I think.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

I would have to know if villain's stats were from full ring or 6-max before I comment much more on whether or not I would stack off.

Against this particular villain, it's not particularly bad. Against only sets or AJ, we're not that far behind, but I don't think he plays KJ this way.

Stats are all 6max. We have a weak-tight, extremely passive villain who wakes up. A smaller flop raise and I can get away from it.

wtf at getting away from it

One of the notes I always take on anyone with an AF under 1.5 (green stat BTW) is if they will lead or raise with TPTK. If he has ever raised like this with TP then I stack off. Typically when a 0.5 nit calls pre and raises any street alarm bells go off and I start shooting for pot control. Call this flop with the stats you have, and let him lead his nitty bets. When he tries to get it in it's time to run.

TJ - so you think basically only JJ takes this line? Never QQ, KK , AJ? And never a very micro-sized percentage of other hands?

Any set takes this line. When a guy is 10/8 and has an AF of 0.5 he is never betting. This is the quintesential "setminer" He's not getting it all in without AA, KK or a set. 0.5's never bluff, and rarely ever bet, let alone raise.

I didn't see stack effective stats, gg me. OP gave him odds. You can get away from it now.

Originally Posted by Bbickes

I'm still stacking off here cause we're way ahead of AJ, KK,QQ and KsQs played meh.

Not felting AA here is results oriented I think.

He's 10/8/0.5 and I just don't see a station/nit like this rr'ing huge with AJ, QQ or KQs.

I'm often willing to go busto with AA. But I just think I should have decided the set was likely, sized the flop raise better, and then gotten away from the hand. Because of the read, imo, not the results.

Originally Posted by kmind

I didn't see stack effective stats, gg me. OP gave him odds. You can get away from it now.

Like swigg, spoon and TJ have pointed out, the mistake is the flop raise (either smaller raise or call). You're right - after the raise, I'm pot committed.

Also, following up on TJ's comment, I don't see these TAF = 0.5 player's raising with draws. They call. I don't see any hand he could possibly be rr'ing with other than a set. Even KK he'd call, imo.

Originally Posted by Robb

Originally Posted by kmind

I didn't see stack effective stats, gg me. OP gave him odds. You can get away from it now.

Like swigg, spoon and TJ have pointed out, the mistake is the flop raise (either smaller raise or call). You're right - after the raise, I'm pot committed.

Also, following up on TJ's comment, I don't see these TAF = 0.5 player's raising with draws. They call. I don't see any hand he could possibly be rr'ing with other than a set. Even KK he'd call, imo.

Even KK isnt flat calling here If he called KK preflop hes looking to get it in on a flop without an A

Originally Posted by Robb

Originally Posted by kmind

I didn't see stack effective stats, gg me. OP gave him odds. You can get away from it now.

Like swigg, spoon and TJ have pointed out, the mistake is the flop raise (either smaller raise or call). You're right - after the raise, I'm pot committed.

Also, following up on TJ's comment, I don't see these TAF = 0.5 player's raising with draws. They call. I don't see any hand he could possibly be rr'ing with other than a set. Even KK he'd call, imo.

I'm on vacation and am trying to type fast so sorry about my horrible wording. What I meant to say was I didn't see effective stacks. But yeah, you should have raised more pre. You do that then there is no way I'm not felting this. We'd only be scared of JJ and the amount of "rare" times QQ and KK try to get it in will make up for it for sure.

For what it's worth, you're never pot committed in cash.

How many hands are the stats over?

If we raise to $4 pre it seems we're blowing him out of the pot. If we're 3betting more than AA and not stacking on every flop, then he's not getting the implied odds he thinks he is for set hunting.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

For what it's worth, you're never pot committed in cash.

I see your point, but there are times when you've just got to call. Example. I thought a maniac min-r'ing villain was bluffing and tried to bluff him off his hand. Check the river. LoL. He maybe wasn't pot committed, but he sure as hell should have called.

Back to the hand above - you're right. If I'm 95% certain I'm beaten, I can fold. And probably should have.

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
10 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($4.75)
UTG 1 ($4.75)
UTG 2 ($3.88)
MP1 ($3.35)
MP2 ($48.41)
MP3 ($24.85)
CO ($2.92)
Hero ($25.69)
SB ($4.85)
BB ($3.54)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 10 players) Hero is BTN
6 folds, CO calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.1, SB raises to $1.95, 1 fold, CO folds, Hero calls $0.85

Flop: ($4.4, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.75, SB calls $2.75

Turn: ($9.9, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($9.9, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9.9, SB folds

Edit: Villain has $.15 left.

Final Pot: $19.8

Hero wins $19.42 ( won $4.82 )
SB lost -$4.70
CO lost -$0.25

I'm calling here with A-high alot.
If you had a PP you'd bet the turn imo. and a PSB on the river screams steal.

This was really bad, you beat nothing and the villian should have called.

EDIT after seeing stack sizes the villan should spam call.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

How many hands are the stats over?

If we raise to $4 pre it seems we're blowing him out of the pot. If we're 3betting more than AA and not stacking on every flop, then he's not getting the implied odds he thinks he is for set hunting.

Stats are over 130 hands.