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Some thoughts on micrology (micro stakes psychology)

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  1. #1

    Default Some thoughts on micrology (micro stakes psychology)

    So it's sunday and i ought to be opening a few tables but i've been hammering it thursday night (falling asleep in work on friday), friday night (missed going out with friends) and two sessions last night.

    In that time though i've increased my roll by about 17% but i'm really exhausted.

    The whole thing with me is that i've been results orientated. And i keep realising that i am while realising more and more specifically why i shouldn't be, but it makes FUCK ALL difference. I still go apeshit when i lose and euphoric when i win and i just can't afford to have these psychological swings in my game.

    I also get really nervous when i sit down to play because my mind/body knows what to expect.

    The reason stems from how i route my winnings. I'm simply desperate to get to a decent stake where poker winnings are a kin to a part time job type thing. Like for example, playing 20k hands per month @ 25nl for 4PTBB/100 + rakeback.

    I figured i'd be playing 50nl by xmas but what with factoring in downswings and potential moving up failure attempts, i'm not sure that's realistic.

    * Wouldn't mind some feedback on this as a general time prediction. From the top end of 5nl to the top end of 25nl/bottom end of 50nl in eight months?

    Anyway, i wanted a discussion on how people factor poker into their lives, are people just chilled out, not bothered about when the winnings come, or are they very keen to run up the ladder, how does it affect them etc. And more importantly, ANY in depthy psychological tips on how to get rid of this sucky attitude.

    One more thing. I'm not sure of the role of a moderator on here, it's an interesting difference to a normal mod who is 'just' watching over a forum. Here our mods are our gurus and have a lot of influence on us. So i wonder if it's their role to ask us more sensible questions when we write a sucky thread to help us get to the core of our issue... and if NOT then is it really their role to hurl abuse at us and shut us down?

    Coz a healthy approach or accute question or two, could be just the thing to help prevent someone continuously banging their head against the wall.

    Quick Summary: I think micro grinders have a tricky time because they can't see the fruits of their actions yet and so are in the dark a LOT of the time. This can lead to much frustration and impatience regarding moving up etc. Discuss.
  2. #2
    Moving up is more a function of total hands played + time invested in learning away from the tables than days or weeks. About 50k hands at any level should be enough to move up, or get good enough that another 10 - 15k hands will build the bankroll requirements sufficiently.

    Tilting is - EV certainly, but I'm not one of these automon wannabes who seeks to remove all emotion from poker. If you never get excited about playing well (even if results don't follow), why play? But there's a big difference between getting a thrill out of playing well and being results-oriented. Takes a while to tell the difference, too.
  3. #3
    Guest
    Moving up is dependent on your inner game, not how well you play.

    "Inner game" meaning your internal motivation, discipline, confidence, willpower
  4. #4
    BooG690's Avatar
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    I'm basically right where you are Wonder. Well, not RIGHT where you are but I was! I'm not seeing any profits or withdrawals from my roll as I'm still climbing up. I'm not gaining anything but a bigger roll...and I don't care. Right now what we need to be doing is building our roll to where we can play and withdraw regularly (as is the obvious objective). However, the more important thing is to be learning from our mistakes right now when it's less expensive.

    As for being "desperate to get a decent stake"...be careful with this desperation. Maybe that's the reason you make some of the choices you make. Wanting to climb the stakes too fast results in shitty choices (I was the same way my first time around 5NL). You shouldn't be nervous when sitting down and such...the swings really shouldn't be THAT great THAT often. Also, your bankroll is used to prevent this nervousness. Don't get me wrong...I'd LOVE to make money off poker...but one step at a time (never lose sight of the steps!).

    And now, the subliminals toward Spenda. It IS kind of their role to let you know when you're turning a thread into a bad beat whine. I'm going to let you know now...but I think a lot of people are starting to roll their eyes and get tired of your constant blaming of bad beats and variance for your losses. This honestly can't be the reason since there seems to be so MUCH of these "bad beats and variance." Spenda, as a moderator (and a tough one at that), is going to hammer down on these claims...which need to be hammered down on. Now that I hear of your desperation, maybe THAT'S what leads to shitty decisions (aka "bad beats). Hope you take this the right way brotha...and good luck!
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  5. #5
    I think micropsychology would be a more appropriate name. That aside, your post really made me think a lot about my journey to 100NL (which is probably still micro to some).

    I can remember when I hit big BR milestones and when I moved up, when I had to move down and when I was almost broke, but I honestly can't remember much about my psychological states. I can say that I don't think not being able to see the fruit of my labor was any factor. I don't think about my online money as real money unless I make a withdrawal. Just seeing the number go up steadily gives me satisfaction, regardless of whether it represents meaningful real money.

    8 months from 5NL to 50NL is very possible. I built up the BR (not necessarily the skill) from $100 to $1250 to play 50NL in 4 months.
  6. #6
    [21:38] <dranger> WTF HAPPENED WHEN I WENT TO BOOT CAMP
    [21:40] <kiwiMark> THERE IS A NEW PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES CALLED BARACK OBAMA AND HE'S NOT VERY WHITE
    [21:40] <kiwiMark> THIS IS NOT A LEVEL.
  7. #7
    I think a lot of people are starting to roll their eyes and get tired of your constant blaming of bad beats and variance for your losses
    yeah i hear that, i don't mind you saying, infact i appreciate your honesty. I wish i didn't have that attitude too, which is what this post is about, i can't seem to shake it. So that's a priority level mission i guess.

    Parasurama, that's some fast grinding. Would be interested to know # hands? just out of interest. This will be my 2nd month @ 5nl and i may well have another month in me. I want to player a longer game i think, my brains aint that sharp so i want a fatter bankroll for each stake so i can take my time and properly say I've PWND a stake before moving up.

    shut up and play
    yeah. Need to get them hands in. Last month i go in like 7k hands, this month it's going to be closer to 15k.
  8. #8
    I'm not really sure because I didn't track my hands but I can give you a rough estimate of the number of days I played at each level, by the end I was 6-tabling FR, and probably played about 3-5 hours a day.

    2NL: 5 days (I started with $100, which is overrolled for 2NL, so I just played to see if I could beat it)
    5NL: 20 days
    10NL: 30 days
    25NL: 60-70 days, I broke even for probably the first 50 days, lost for another 10 and then went on a sick heater.

    All of this is pretty irrelevant though, it's just to show you that it's possible. Just play.
  9. #9
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on micrology (micro stakes psychology)

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland
    * Wouldn't mind some feedback on this as a general time prediction. From the top end of 5nl to the top end of 25nl/bottom end of 50nl in eight months?
    shouldn't take too long if you're not awful... http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...nd-t59423.html

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland
    Anyway, i wanted a discussion on how people factor poker into their lives, are people just chilled out, not bothered about when the winnings come, or are they very keen to run up the ladder, how does it affect them etc. And more importantly, ANY in depthy psychological tips on how to get rid of this sucky attitude.
    poker has a psychological impact. The more you play and/or the more real the money involved feels (this isn't just how much it is)
    You need to minimise this impact. I've had 3 big downswings (15-20 buyins) this year, as well as some decent days. if this carried over into my daily life I'd be super-manic-depo.

    This all relates to what you want from poker, but nobody wants to address that cos maybe it's scary to admit or think about ?
    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ng-t84656.html
  10. #10
    Parasurama, that's fast as fuuuu....

    so jealous. I think i'm pissed off coz i've been stuck at 5 for two months now and it looks like i've got another one in me. This is, to be honest, embarassing. I think that might be why losses are amplified. It doesn't help that i'm not getting in many hands. I'm playing 3 sometimes 4 tables 2 hours a night.

    Yeah, i wish poker was a hobby for me and not the final means to escape my career. That's a lot of pressure. I guess all this builds a picture as to why i can't divorce myself from results. Again, remembering part of it is a feeling of humiliation that i'm this long term 5nl grind bitch. My ego is taking a beating. Or i'm giving it one.

    These are some fundamentals. I really don't see it affecting how i play. I play as i should. I get it all in with AA/KK pre flop every time i can bla bla. But it simply DOES affect my enjoyment and my life outside poker i.e. bad moods etc.
  11. #11
    BooG690's Avatar
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    Hmm...poker affecting life outside of poker is never a good sign. Don't let it affect your relationships...that's a definite sign of an even bigger problem. I don't want to sound preachy or anything but it's true.

    As for being stuck in 5NL, I will admit, it can drive you nuts. Have you taken a stab at 10NL? Are you beating 5NL? I suggest taking a stab if you're driving yourself nuts with this.
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland
    Yeah, i wish poker was a hobby for me and not the final means to escape my career. That's a lot of pressure.
    premature. To get good at poker:
    1 - be fascinated by poker
    2 - obsess
    3 - study, read, learn
    4 - play
    5 - win
    6 - identify leaks
    7 - fix them
    8 - repeat

    to beat $5nl.
    1 - turn on your computer. Seriously. Value bet good hands. Fold when behind. Play position!

    advice - post your position stats please
  13. #13
    lol, ego.

    mine is HUGE.

    but bringing it to the poker table is so -EV. if it takes an ego battering for you to realise it then its worth it. i got nowhere before i accepted that i wasnt even nearly as good as i thought i was and that anything i was going to get out of poker was going to take a lot of boring work.
  14. #14
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    I'd love to jump in with heaps of good advice, but frankly after about 2 years playing poker I'm still in the same boat in regards to my emotions and my results. Sometimes are better than others, probably affected a bit by my emotions in general at the time. Which I guess would be the best advice, do things that help with your overall emotional state. Exercise cannot be overstated here. Healthy mind, healthy body stuff. Regular exercise both helps immediately to sooth you, but as you get fitter you're less likely to have emotional issues in general.


    I think you guys are a bit tough on Spenda. You may not like the WAY he asks questions, but trust me, he is asking important questions and making important points. Rather than get all hurt about his tone/attitude, realise you're getting free help from someone who's successfully been through all this before and try to identify what he's really getting at.
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  15. #15
    Have you taken a stab at 10NL? Are you beating 5NL?
    I did take a stab at 10 when i had 21 buy ins but had a (insert word here) and lost quite a bit, so moved back and thought i should take another shot with more buy-ins. Since then i've learned quite a lot and think i'm ready for 10, so will give it a try when i maybe have 25 buy-ins. I was waiting till i got out of a (insert word here) and i think i'm out of it now and that it wasn't really a " " but was just that i wasn't playing at fishy hours of the day.

    1 - turn on your computer. Seriously. Value bet good hands. Fold when behind. Play position!
    yep, all that.

    anything i was going to get out of poker was going to take a lot of boring work.
    Yeah i think that's it. Accepting that it's going to be very long and drawn out at first with no noticeable or tangible reward for a while.
  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bjsaust
    I'd love to jump in with heaps of good advice, but frankly after about 2 years playing poker I'm still in the same boat in regards to my emotions and my results. Sometimes are better than others, probably affected a bit by my emotions in general at the time. Which I guess would be the best advice, do things that help with your overall emotional state. Exercise cannot be overstated here. Healthy mind, healthy body stuff. Regular exercise both helps immediately to sooth you, but as you get fitter you're less likely to have emotional issues in general.


    I think you guys are a bit tough on Spenda. You may not like the WAY he asks questions, but trust me, he is asking important questions and making important points. Rather than get all hurt about his tone/attitude, realise you're getting free help from someone who's successfully been through all this before and try to identify what he's really getting at.
    I need a heavy bag in my room or i'm fooked! That will ease the tension.

    I didn't say any names. If anyone gives me free advise, i love them for it, end of.
  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Parasurama
    I'm not really sure because I didn't track my hands but I can give you a rough estimate of the number of days I played at each level, by the end I was 6-tabling FR, and probably played about 3-5 hours a day.

    2NL: 5 days (I started with $100, which is overrolled for 2NL, so I just played to see if I could beat it)
    5NL: 20 days
    10NL: 30 days
    25NL: 60-70 days, I broke even for probably the first 50 days, lost for another 10 and then went on a sick heater.

    All of this is pretty irrelevant though, it's just to show you that it's possible. Just play.
    I just ran 3 months (sep - dec '08) through HEM where I went from playing a $300 roll at 10nl into playing $3.6k (minus some withdrawals) at 50nl. That's roughly the same % increase Para was talking about.

    I played 23k hands at 10nl, moved up at $900 for 35k hands at 25nl. Moved up at $2k to 50nl, but I withdrew rather than tackling 100nl 'cuz I knew I wasn't ready to beat it, yet. Made another $1k at 50nl in December (not including a FTP bonus that added $600) over 23k hands. I was playing 8 - 10 tables of FR at the time.

    All of that was a 4.2 ptBB/100 win rate. I was studying a ton every week and really focused on my game every day.

    I don't always learn so much or do so well, but I have learned to shut and play. And to keep withdrawing poker profits.
  18. #18
    Hmmm, tastey. Emotionally hurts to hear it though lol.

    Look forward to discussing more tomorrow (tuesday). I'd like some study tips. Like i say, one of my main issues is just not getting the hands in and probably more study time. Plus... there are just some concepts that need to be explained to me from the very ground up.

    It's hard trying to balance a full time job with daily things and poker.

    Another niggle: i play 6max which i hear is very hard to full on multi-table. I know 5 tables gets hairy. But full ring people get away with more tables.

    Thing is, my hud is unreadable at small sizes and also, the amount of data is just too overwhelming with 9 people, so i'm much more comfortable at 6 max.

    Again, knowing how fast other people are moving up is possibly tilting me, sounds weird but otherwise i'd be like: yeah, whatever, few years @ 5nl, no problem lol.
  19. #19
    stop worrying so much about 'what if this' or 'is this possible'

    play to learn and get better

    post hand histories and participate in productive discussion
  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland
    It's hard trying to balance a full time job with daily things and poker.
    We all have to find that balance...I work 7days a week , thats the way it is. The job has to come first , it pays the bills etc. I really do wonder whether the people who want to play pro whilst at the nano stakes are just putting too much pressure on themselves. They want all the money and kudos that goes with it and try to get there bankroll to that stage by playing recklessly because they think they are good players and have an edge over their opponents.
    Everything then becomes a story of bad beats , rather than putting the work in to analyse their game and find out where they are going wrong,. Is it bet sizing issues that allow opponents to continue and hit their draws cheaply etc
    Unfortunately,(don't wanna be cruel ) but your nick has kind of given me a label for this as "people who live in wonderland".

    Another niggle: i play 6max which i hear is very hard to full on multi-table. I know 5 tables gets hairy. But full ring people get away with more tables.
    play less tables then.I'm playing LAGgy and with the table opening strategy I'm playing, 2 or 3 tables of 6max are plenty for me.especially in the headsup stages.So that I can actively concentrate on what /how people are playing and takes notes

    Thing is, my hud is unreadable at small sizes and also, the amount of data is just too overwhelming with 9 people, so i'm much more comfortable at 6 max.
    get yourself a bigger monitor for one thing. Not sure whatsize you have at the moment but check out www.aria.co.uk and in the superspecials there are usually some cheap big monitors. 22" are about £100. As for the HUD data , hdo you actually use it or are you just looking at VPIP/PFR.
    From the screen shots I posted , you'll see that i had a lot of data on mine , but I'm actually using it. second row tells me if they are blind stealing/whether their blinds can be stolen/and how often they are 3 /4 betting.Bottom row is whether they are cbetting too much/little and if they will fold to a cbet. If the fold to cbet is <40 and you missed the flop theres no need to bloat the pot. The river bet I use to see if they habitually make a bet on the river and combine that with the wtsd and W$SD so that I can decide if they are likely to be bluffing on the river or usually showing up with a decent hand.
  21. #21
    Ok dude. Poker is not a simple game. Thats all there is to it. It APPEARS to be simple on the surface, and thats the thing. If it wasn't the fish wouldn't play, but as it ISN'T simple, you need to work on your game CONSTANTLY to get any better. If you read through my old blog/op/thing, you will notice that I started out a lot like yourself. I complained about beats, I was posting pretty much pointless (sorry) things, I wasn't studying the game like I should. Towards the end though, when my BR finally started taking off (coincidence?) stuff started clicking. I started being more active in discussions, I devoured EVERY poker book/article/post I could get my eyes on. I broke down my own game. I asked better players for advice. I would throw my ego out the fucking window while playing. These are the things you HAVE to do to succeed. You can't think just because you are playing better hands than your villains you AUTOMATICALLY win. You have to know HOW to play those hands. You can't just look at a hand chart and be like, "ok lets see... MP1 so I open KQs..." you have to know WHY you can open that there, how to play it on certain flops, vs certain villains, etc.

    But yea, the whole psychology thing. Seriously, I'm not sure what it was exactly that got me over that bump in the road. It was more I just got the fuck over it. I was sick of getting sick to my stomach over losing an amount of money that couldn't even buy a meal at McDonald's. Now, I just think in terms of BI's and bb's. Makes things MUCH less stressful and you dont think about the $ amount. Thats how daven can go on those 15-20 BI downswings and not really worry about it. He doesnt think, "O noes! I'm on a -$2k downswing. SICK!!!!" Just man up and deal with it. Get the thoughts of going pro out of your head. It will be a while before you can do that. Even when you get to 50nl+ you shouldnt just auto go pro. Get a BIG sample on that limit (like 50k MINIMUM) and make sure you are making enough that you can withdraw to pay your bills, that you aren't scared to have a losing month, etc. It takes a lot to play poker for a living, and just by you posting these kind of threads shows that you have a long way to go, emotionally/psychologically as well as skill-wise.

    Make a blog in the FTR Blogs and Operations thing. Post these thoughts there and maybe throw the link on here in the BC if something really interesting crops up. Post hands. Study. Read the Poker Mindset that I know you bought. Study. Get better at poker. Study some more. Did I mention study? Set aside some time each week to study. Mine is while at work lol, but thats because I don't have to do shit there.

    Ok long as post done. Later!
  22. #22
    I think I suffer from a lot of the same problems as wonderland and probably a lot of other micro players (brushes off loses to variance and emotionally invested in results etc) and here is what I’ve figured out although I doubt it will help.

    Were fucked. There is something wrong with us emotionally. Well not really wrong in a conventional sense but obstructive to good poker play. Unfortunately there is no cure or sage piece of advice that is going to immediately fix us. It’s likely well have to deal with these problems for the rest of our lives both in poker and real life.

    So what can we do? Give up? You can if you want to. Or you can focus really really hard on trying to control your emotions so that years from now it will have become second nature through repetition and habit and maybe we wont have to try anymore. Or maybe we’ll be trying our whole lives. Maybe everybody deals with the same shit and the successful ones just grin and bear it and don’t let it effect their results. Who knows...

    Also we suck really badly at poker and so our pathetic win rates are hella swingy
  23. #23
    1. Everyone struggles with poker variance. It's a weird f****d up game where winning and playing well are rarely in perfect sync. But as pig says, it does pull in the feesh.

    2. No one is emotionally suited to playing poker well. Poker tilts everyone who tries to get good at it. Different tilts, different ways, different problems. But we all get tilted. First one to start controlling it wins.

    3. Nearly every poker "depression" I've gone through was made worse by focusing on the short term - a week or two or even a session or two. Nearly everything about poker is easier to deal with if you can think long term, not short term. Yearly goals are much better than monthly ones, and oddly, easier to hit.

    4. Going pro took daven nearly two years (as memory serves) - not just poker playing experience - from the time he started thinking seriously about it until he finally took the jump. People aren't going pro over night, and shouldn't. You need some months of steady success before you do it, so chill out and enjoy the ride for the next few months.

    5. You gotta love poker. Some of the things you're doing to yourself are making you hate poker. If you're going to be successful long term with poker, you gotta love the swings, the feesh, the bad beats, the whole deal. Poker is what it is, and won't ever change. You can only control who you are, and how you react. First one to change themselves (and forget about wishing poker were different) wins.
  24. #24
    Some really good contributions to this thread guys, hats off. Getting to the fundamentals here.

    So i THINK i noticed the first inclings of progress last night. Like, at first, when i first started playing nl, if i lost a buy-in or so, i would play UNTIL i made it back. I wasn't working at the time and so would sometimes see myself staying up till 5am, still down.

    More recently i would still keep playing but maybe for an hour, two tops.

    Last night i lost two buyins, about two sessions worth of grinding, in two hands and i shut everything down immediately. I then kicked the shit out of everything, but... there's a progrssion. So maybe one day, while i shall still tilt, the tilt itself may be prohibitted from being poured back into the game.

    Maybe that's key, tilting is fine if you can get away from the game and tilt into a jog or a punch bag until you get the hang of tilt and just going: ah well.

    My goal is to shut down after two buy-in loss. As long as the loss = anger anyway, otherwise i might keep playing. And again, you go away for as long as it takes to feel ready again. This is some hard psychology and personal dev shit. Patience beyond belief.

    The Poker Mindset says one of the things to help disassociation with money/results is just experience. Sounds obvious but really think about it. One day we'll see enough fruits to full understand what it MEANS to lose a buy-in i.e. nothing.

    Until that day I can't promise not to lose it but i'm sure it's getting closer every session.
  25. #25
    once you've played enough hands, nothing will surprise you.
    Congratulations, you've won your dick's weight in sweets! Decode the message in the above post to find out how to claim your tic-tac
  26. #26
    once you've played enough hands, nothing will surprise you.
    Quote! I wonder if this can be said even more succinctly, but i quite like it the way it is. Want to relate it more to anger than surprise but it's tricky to make it punchy

    How's about: until you've seen enough hands, your losses will matter.
  27. #27
    Think positively , you are focussing on downswing so it is affecting the way you play even if you aren't realising it. Are you going to call the shortstacker's all in with your top pair top kicker/two pair or are you going to think "he's got me beat cos he's always got it".
    I've changed my mindset, I've changed my strategy , and I've changed my typical opponents and dropped back down a level to recover my confidence.
    I'm playing my moderate cards still, but in position , and for a limited pot. Before I'd flop 2 pair with moderate cards and bloat a pot and lose a big pot to a better two pair by the river. Lots of small pots add up to a nicely rising graph , several big losses hammer your graph and confidence.
  28. #28
    Some More wisdom from The Poker Mindset:

    "Just because you are making money doesn’t mean you are playing good and just because you are losing money doesn’t necessarily mean you’re playing bad."

    It also talks about differenciating between goal setting and monetary goal setting. And i think part of the problem is that when i sit down to play, i have a general sense that i should win money instead of just play each hand correctly. And if i don't finish in profit i've done something wrong.

    another great quote:

    “You only have the power to significantly affect your results in the long term.”
  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_MM
    Several big losses hammer your graph and confidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robb
    3. Nearly every poker "depression" I've gone through was made worse by focusing on the short term - a week or two or even a session or two. Nearly everything about poker is easier to deal with if you can think long term, not short term. Yearly goals are much better than monthly ones, and oddly, easier to hit.
  30. #30
    Hey WL, just thought I'd let ya know I enjoy reading your semi-blog on BC. As a micro-wannabee-grinder who tries to get in an hour or two when possible, I see your place as somewhere I hope to be in a few k hands when/if I ever get the time.

    Also as a canuck I can appreciate self-deprecating angst. It funnies my tickle bone.

    As far as emotional investment, I'm ALWAYS nervous when I first sit down. I'm still under 3k hands total (since I started tracking) but I find my best play is when I follow a cold strategy and don't let myself think things like, "Oh this facker doesn't have it, I'm gonna call his AI to punish him!"

    My best seshes are a zen-like thing, making decisions based on my (limited) knowlege of how a play is +ive over the long term. That means I probably throw away more hands when I'm ahead to a better player, but I find I'm getting sucked out less as you yourself have said "They've ALWAYS got it!" Obviously that can't be true, but finding out you've been sucked out by a hand/player you should have seen coming is a one-way ticket to Tilt City.

    The other thing that helps me is only playing when well rested/focused, and I always set a time limit based on fatigue level, other commitments etc.

    To sum up: I'm happy to be sponging up the knowlege from here while making decent plays (for my level) and relying on crappier players to help me build my BR. I'll move up when I'm (more than) comfy.

    As for quitting your day job someday, I really hope it works out.
  31. #31
    Hey Dash, thanks for the appreciation

    Man, there is actually someone out there who has grinded less than i have! I really can't wait to be a few stages better so i can help the new guys. I likes helping out. Give something back, this community has helped me SOOO much. Man hugs all round.

    I broke my first 30k hands today. Going to be setting goals too such as reading more books, articles,videos etc. See THAT is something you have control over and will, over time, improve your win rate as opposed to the goal being to get to a stake by a certain date. That just sets up tilt parameters.

    So yeah, i think this thread has come together nicely to address the difficulties of being inexperienced i guess. One can't run up that ladder in terms of buy-ins/wins but one can run up the ladder of study.

    Exercise for noobs (i did this tonight): make a list of goals that aren't bankroll related, what can you do each day/week/month to improve. See all the things you can list and get to 'em.

    Best of luck with your inner game, Dash. Oh and get an operations manager in your sig, not so much to look ahead but it's good to look back, see how far you've come and also to have a statement of intent.
  32. #32
    Ok, I checked out ops mgr.

    Check it out - sa-weeet!
  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland
    I broke my first 30k hands today. Going to be setting goals too such as reading more books, articles,videos etc. See THAT is something you have control over and will, over time, improve your win rate as opposed to the goal being to get to a stake by a certain date. That just sets up tilt parameters.
    Exactly. Your natural feelings about winning or losing were enhanced by you feeling that you were advancing towards or moving away from your goal. How far and how fast you move up the stakes depends on how fast you improve as a player.
  34. #34
    Hey Wonderland,
    Im gonna put my two cents worth, your comments sound alot like alot of us who ( after 2 years are really just starting out ). A couple of things I might share. If you've been playing for two years, one of the first things you should have learned is not go Tilt, or at least walk the fk away when you see it coming.... Bad Beats happen, both ways.... Online/Live Its Poker, shit happens..
    I noticed alot of training films some include big beats, noticed more & more, its like water off a ducks back from the trainer, comments like " oh well he sukd out " experienced players understand its a part of the game. ( it does make for good stories )
    How many times have you said to yourself " Why am I in this pot ? " A good sign your game is improving, but old/dumb mistakes still creep in. Now you are noticing them
    The game you played last year should be 100% better and different than last year.
    Things that have been working for me.
    1. If I lose 3x buyins I take a break (maybe a day), watch a film other than poker, afterwards then read a poker book.
    2. Dont set goals like, this week Im gonna get my bankroll here.. just see if you making your 100bb goal. When I learned 6x BB per 100 is good, I knew it was gonna be a long haul. Accept it...
    3. Micro's suck, but it will make you a better player... its just hard work.
    4. Funniest comment I heard from a LAG player is he didnt mind getting busted out ( yummie ), I thought to myself, I just cared about playing great poker. Im finding out that usually will take care of the wins in the long run.
    Of course it sucks when 9 out of 10 you'd have won it, and you think why is it always me #10. Make notes on that player, the next 9 times will be yours..... Live: There is nothing better than busting the guy that busted you the week before, only you took 3x more from him, than he did from you in the same scenario.
    His face: Priceless

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