Reasons why 2pair should beat 3 of a kind.

Throughout my poker career i have often been reminded that three of a kind beats 2pair. But why i ask you? Listed below are the reasons that i believe the rules of the game we love, and the one that i dominate at, poker, should be altered to allow 2pair to beat 3 of a kind.

1. The first and most obvious of reasons is that any given 2 pair is composed of 4 cards where the 3 of a kind is composed of only 3 cards. Therefore if we take that as 3/4=75% which we subtract from 100% and get 25%. Simply put, 2 pair is worth an average of 25% more than 3 of a kind. Therefore it should be ranked higher.

2. The win rate of 2pair over any given 20,000 hands is nearly 16.5% higher than the win rate of 3 of a kind. Far more hands are won with 2 pair than are won with 3 of a kind. If over a 200 hand session you are dealt two pair 3% of the hands and we divide this by its wins rate over 3 of a kind(16.5), we get 0.18181818>. And for the 3 of a kinds we divide the aproximately 1.5% of the time we get 3 of a kind by the same 16.5 difference we get 0.090909>. As you can clearly see, the long run overall worth of 2 pair is more than double that of 3 of a kind! We have been accepting the mathematical error of 3 of a kind beating 2pair for all these years and i am the first to discover it and do the math for myself. If this does not convince you that 2pair should beat 3 of a kind then continue reading my other reasons below.

3. If we were to play every hand to the river, (which I do not recommend but can be used as a profitable strategy in higher stakes games) we would see that we get 2pair nearly 16.5 percent more than 3 of a kind making it that much more valuable and clearly showing why it should be ranked higher than 3 of a kind.

4. This is not as much of a reason as it is making my point. Think of how much we value 3 of a kind. We like it so much we give it additional nick-names such as "trips" or "a set". Now that we all understand why 2pair should beat 3 of a kind, i would like to propose that we hand over those nick-names to 2pair. From now on when we flop 2pair we will say "o good, i flopped a set" and when you river your high-ranked 2pair you can shout out that your "trips" again denied someone with 3 of a kind of a pot.

Any comments or thoughts on my discovery or congradulatory messages are welcomed. I would like to hear your thoughts.


-RoyalStraight

-The highest hand i poker!

are you high? no, seriously, are you?

thats pretty funny - i have to disagree, but you make some interesting arguments...not good, but interesting

wtf?

I think he didnt pass the blunt at lunch, FIEND.

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

We should have a contest to identify the jokester. My money's on Lukie.

LOL r u an idiot?

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

i agree.

the reason three of a kind is better than two pair: It's less probable. Nuff said.

Queen high should be the best hand.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

the reason three of a kind is better than two pair: It's less probable. Nuff said.

I don't know, his math is pretty convincing...

Warpe has the smartest response to this I think. it's a rofliculous statement at the least but the OP could be a friggin genius.

a bit off topic but did anyone read his other post where he says, and i quote

"I chose RoyalStraoght for my name becaue it is the highest hand ranking in poker"

People???? people???? get a sense of humor..... LOOK at the thread. you don't have to be brain surgeon to know when someone is fuckin wit' ya. here's the bets.

1) Lukie... a 2:1 favorite and quite funny in his own right. And loves to be an OP
2) Po$$e$$ed a 25:1 underdog, but possible because he can be funny even without sarcasm.
3) Midas06 a 4:1 possibility if he was drinking that night.
4) Muxy a 3:1 good bet. He gets bored easy and is Canadian. We love humour.
5) BigRed 8:1 a bit of a stretch because bigred's humour is mostly poking back, not the original zings. But some of the funniest one line posts on FTR.


This is your line up, place your bets.........................................

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

People???? people???? get a sense of humor..... LOOK at the thread. you don't have to be brain surgeon to know when someone is fuckin wit' ya. here's the bets.

1) Lukie... a 2:1 favorite and quite funny in his own right.
2) Po$$e$$ed a 25:1 underdog, but possible because he can be funny without sarcasm.
3) Midas06 a 4:1 possibility if he was drinking.
4) Muxy a 3:1 good bet. He gets board easy and is canadian. We love humour.
5) BigRed 8:1 a bit of a stretch because bigred's humour is mostly poking back, not the original zings. But some of the funniest one line posts on FTR.


This is your line up, place your bets.........................................

Possesed, dont even know who he is but that 25 to 1 pay off would sure boost the bankroll if it was him

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

People???? people???? get a sense of humor..... LOOK at the thread. you don't have to be brain surgeon to know when someone is fuckin wit' ya. here's the bets.

1) Lukie... a 2:1 favorite and quite funny in his own right. And loves to be an OP
2) Po$$e$$ed a 25:1 underdog, but possible because he can be funny even without sarcasm.
3) Midas06 a 4:1 possibility if he was drinking that night.
4) Muxy a 3:1 good bet. He gets bored easy and is Canadian. We love humour.
5) BigRed 8:1 a bit of a stretch because bigred's humour is mostly poking back, not the original zings. But some of the funniest one line posts on FTR.


This is your line up, place your bets.........................................

1) Lukie - would be risking mod status, even if he did it I don't think we'll find out
2) Po$$e$$ed - I would easily take 25:1 odds. He's random as hell and likes to finger the system from behind. My pick
3) Midas06 - see #1
4) Muxy - Hasn't been making crazy long posts for a long time, long shot
5) BigRed - I agree

Originally Posted by RoyalStraight

1. The first and most obvious of reasons is that any given 2 pair is composed of 4 cards where the 3 of a kind is composed of only 3 cards. Therefore if we take that as 3/4=75% which we subtract from 100% and get 25%. Simply put, 2 pair is worth an average of 25% more than 3 of a kind. Therefore it should be ranked higher.

Yes, but 4/3=133% and if we subtract 100% from that we get 33%. It is clear that this hints that 3 of a kind should be higher.

2. The win rate of 2pair over any given 20,000 hands is nearly 16.5% higher than the win rate of 3 of a kind. Far more hands are won with 2 pair than are won with 3 of a kind. If over a 200 hand session you are dealt two pair 3% of the hands and we divide this by its wins rate over 3 of a kind(16.5), we get 0.18181818>. And for the 3 of a kinds we divide the aproximately 1.5% of the time we get 3 of a kind by the same 16.5 difference we get 0.090909>. As you can clearly see, the long run overall worth of 2 pair is more than double that of 3 of a kind! We have been accepting the mathematical error of 3 of a kind beating 2pair for all these years and i am the first to discover it and do the math for myself. If this does not convince you that 2pair should beat 3 of a kind then continue reading my other reasons below.

The 1.5% and 3% numbers are made up, making any and all conclusions futile.

3. If we were to play every hand to the river, (which I do not recommend but can be used as a profitable strategy in higher stakes games) we would see that we get 2pair nearly 16.5 percent more than 3 of a kind making it that much more valuable and clearly showing why it should be ranked higher than 3 of a kind.

We get 1pair even more.. so 1pair should be the highest paying hand evah?

Stupid post.

I dont think it is anyone like Muxy, Po$$ or Lukie. IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

Originally Posted by WhiteFingers

IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

I think it's abundantly clear that he isn't. If you aren't convinced by his "arguments", then read his suggestion #4..

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by WhiteFingers

IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

I think it's abundantly clear that he isn't. If you aren't convinced by his "arguments", then read his suggestion #4..

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

Posting under alternate accounts isn't really my style. More like 1000 to 1 for me. I'd just post this under my name with a LOLOL!!!! at the end.

Good post though, I got a good laugh.

Another reason is that it's in the beginner's circle. I rarely venture out of my community forum and only do when the community forum is low on activity.

The silence is defining.

This thread is in need of highjack. I have not had a losing night since purchasing PT. What autorate do you use?How do you guys feel about PAHUD vs. Gametime+? Pokerstars now has resizable tables. And downloadable themes.

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

y

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

n

it's too funny

I got my hopes up when I saw the possiblity of a straight v flush argument. Now I have to actually do some work! Damn you all!

i think this is clearly the best or the worst post ever (not that i've been here long enough for my opinion to mean much)
it's such a load of random bullshit but it made me laugh.

btw ru checkin out my kick ass avatar, ya u are

Originally Posted by jameseyb

I got my hopes up when I saw the possiblity of a straight v flush argument.

This one is obvious. There are more outs for a flush than an OESD. You can't even argue against that.

That's why I only play suited cards, connected cards are -eV.

Originally Posted by jameseyb

I got my hopes up when I saw the possiblity of a straight v flush argument. Now I have to actually do some work! Damn you all!

I wanted to post about that too.. because when I started playing poker I actually thought straight>flush.. and it cost me a rather big pot to figure out it was the other way around. But I let some program simulate 250k hands and this came out:

straight flush .05%
four of a kind .17%
full house 2.53%
Flush 3%
Straight 4.6%
Three of a kind 4.85%
2p 23.67%
Pair 43.73%

So I guess they're all adequately placed in order of likelyhood.

(except high card.. it happens 17.4% so it should beat 2p!!!!)

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by WhiteFingers

IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

I think it's abundantly clear that he isn't. If you aren't convinced by his "arguments", then read his suggestion #4..

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

I've decided no. I thought it was funny. But if this was actually a legitimate post then no doubt it would be the worst post ever

i think folding should win, then lukie would be rich.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by BowlinPinTim

I've decided no. I thought it was funny. But if this was actually a legitimate post then no doubt it would be the worst post ever

Unintentional comedy is still comedy

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

Woooooooooooooow.... are you shitting me? straights aren't better then flushes? god.. I just found a leak in my game

funny, I was just going to start a thread like this discussing why full houses should beat 4 of a kind. You even stole my reasoning!!!

GODAMNIT SON OF A BITCH ACHACHACHACHACHACH!!! (i pity anyone who understands this)

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

People???? people???? get a sense of humor..... LOOK at the thread. you don't have to be brain surgeon to know when someone is fuckin wit' ya. here's the bets.

1) Lukie... a 2:1 favorite and quite funny in his own right. And loves to be an OP
2) Po$$e$$ed a 25:1 underdog, but possible because he can be funny even without sarcasm.
3) Midas06 a 4:1 possibility if he was drinking that night.
4) Muxy a 3:1 good bet. He gets bored easy and is Canadian. We love humour.
5) BigRed 8:1 a bit of a stretch because bigred's humour is mostly poking back, not the original zings. But some of the funniest one line posts on FTR.


This is your line up, place your bets.........................................

haha, classic

what's an OP (assuming that it isnt original poster, which wouldn't make sense in this ^^^ context.

why is an ace the highest card anyway? I've always hated that. fucking aces.

I wouldn't type tha tmuch

Originally Posted by Greedo017

why is an ace the highest card anyway? I've always hated that. fucking aces.

Pocket 1's ftw.

oh, and his location reminds me, south dakota is the worst state ever. and its not even close. make places to eat along your highways goddamnit! minnesota also! your states are gay!

Nothing like a bit of xenophobia to make the day go faster! I dislike people for things a bit more complex than just the lack of eating establishments on their road networks.

That said, i've also hated peopel for far less, and those do seem like legitimate reasons!

Lipkin [ 16 Posts ] Search
Ugly Ed [ 7 Posts ] Search
Monty9 [ 5 Posts ] Search
SteveO [ 3 Posts ] Search
BowlinPinTim [ 3 Posts ] Search
ActionDavidK [ 2 Posts ] Search
John Galt 15 [ 2 Posts ] Search
RoyalStraight [ 2 Posts ] Search
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Strawberry93 [ 1 Post ]

Posters who have posted under RoyalStraights current IP.

I have no idea why so freaking many have posted under this IP, it's the first time I've ever seen this.

Somebody is either a clever soul or there is a glitch. My money is on the glitch. But I've been wrong before. Is this a situation with providers flipping IP's to different customers, if it isw it's still freaky that this many would get the same IP at one forum. same state, city, house, room???

it's a .proxy.aol.com ip address.

Originally Posted by jameseyb

Nothing like a bit of xenophobia to make the day go faster! I dislike people for things a bit more complex than just the lack of eating establishments on their road networks.

That said, i've also hated peopel for far less, and those do seem like legitimate reasons!

{EDIT: I made a list, then decided it needed it's own thread}

A O L IS THE DEBBLE

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Lipkin [ 16 Posts ] Search
Ugly Ed [ 7 Posts ] Search
Monty9 [ 5 Posts ] Search
SteveO [ 3 Posts ] Search
BowlinPinTim [ 3 Posts ] Search
ActionDavidK [ 2 Posts ] Search
John Galt 15 [ 2 Posts ] Search
RoyalStraight [ 2 Posts ] Search
Demiparadigm [ 1 Post ] Search
playin247 [ 1 Post ] Search
BILLABONG [ 1 Post ] Search
trips1123 [ 1 Post ] Search
zook [ 1 Post ] Search
Strawberry93 [ 1 Post ]

Posters who have posted under RoyalStraights current IP.

I have no idea why so freaking many have posted under this IP, it's the first time I've ever seen this.

how do u do this sir

top right corner of each post

Originally Posted by RoyalStraight

2. The win rate of 2pair over any given 20,000 hands is nearly 16.5% higher than the win rate of 3 of a kind. Far more hands are won with 2 pair than are won with 3 of a kind. If over a 200 hand session you are dealt two pair 3% of the hands and we divide this by its wins rate over 3 of a kind(16.5), we get 0.18181818>. And for the 3 of a kinds we divide the aproximately 1.5% of the time we get 3 of a kind by the same 16.5 difference we get 0.090909>. As you can clearly see, the long run overall worth of 2 pair is more than double that of 3 of a kind! We have been accepting the mathematical error of 3 of a kind beating 2pair for all these years and i am the first to discover it and do the math for myself. If this does not convince you that 2pair should beat 3 of a kind then continue reading my other reasons below.

I bet that more money is won with 2 pair than with 4 of a kind.

Therefore the logic flows:

More Money Won = Higher Ranked Poker Hand
2 Pair Money Won > 4 Of a Kind Money Won
2 Pair Ranked as Higher Poker Hand!

Based on the above logic are the New Rankings?

2 Pair
3 of a kind
Straight
Flush
Full House
Four of a Kind
Straight Flush
Pair
High Card

Damn, my head is hurting again.

i think straights should beat flushes, cause a flush draw gives ya 9 outs...but a straight draw only 8, and sometimes even 4. i think straights should beat royal flushes too. i mean sure, a royal flush is a straight...but come on, screw that. i think the straight and the flush in a royal flush should cancel each other out and so the hand would become worthless.

Grasshopper: I love the ill-logic

Originally Posted by dwags222

i think straights should beat flushes, cause a flush draw gives ya 9 outs...but a straight draw only 8, and sometimes even 4.

That's so 20 posts ago

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Lipkin [ 16 Posts ] Search
Ugly Ed [ 7 Posts ] Search
Monty9 [ 5 Posts ] Search
SteveO [ 3 Posts ] Search
BowlinPinTim [ 3 Posts ] Search
ActionDavidK [ 2 Posts ] Search
John Galt 15 [ 2 Posts ] Search
RoyalStraight [ 2 Posts ] Search
Demiparadigm [ 1 Post ] Search
playin247 [ 1 Post ] Search
BILLABONG [ 1 Post ] Search
trips1123 [ 1 Post ] Search
zook [ 1 Post ] Search
Strawberry93 [ 1 Post ]

Posters who have posted under RoyalStraights current IP.

I have no idea why so freaking many have posted under this IP, it's the first time I've ever seen this.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

it's a .proxy.aol.com ip address.

Wondering why my name is on here... I don't have an aol account. Alos wondering how you found an ip address associated with a post, all that's in the top right corner of posts on my screen is the Quote button.

Hes a mod.. you arent.. thus he can see our IPs

Did we ever find out who was behind this? Someone needs to pay out the bets.

I'm with rilla and put all the blame on zook.. My assumption is that he found out we were on to him and therefore he straightened up for the time being in an attempt to gain our trust and further infiltrate FTR. And once in he can continue his quest to change poker rules in favor of 2 pair over trips. In fact, I am now reminded of a time during our coaching session in which he said "Boy I sure wish I had 2 pair here instead of this lousy set!!!". That sure sounds pretty shifty to me sir.

Originally Posted by Lukie

GODAMNIT SON OF A BITCH ACHACHACHACHACHACH!!! (i pity anyone who understands this)

Filmaff FTW?

Are we talking about 2-7 single draw in here?

edit (Wow, no more posting at midnight, then I might have noticed this thread is 3 years old)

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Did we ever find out who was behind this? Someone needs to pay out the bets.

nice bump, swig, i missed this one the first time - it was a few months before i joined - pretty freakin' hilarious

How is Spoonitnow not listed on here? He is a super math geek.

Originally Posted by dwags222

i think straights should beat royal flushes too. i mean sure, a royal flush is a straight...but come on, screw that. i think the straight and the flush in a royal flush should cancel each other out and so the hand would become worthless.

Stay off the swag dwags, only dank IMO

Man i rather have 3 apples than 2 pairs anyday

You said 2 pair is alot easier to get than 3 of a kind. Thats what makes 3 of a kind a better hand. The harder a hand is to get makes it rank higher.

I think that since a 3 of a kind is one of the most unpredictable hands that is why it carries such a larger value over 2 pair. But if you look at it in the manner of a full house with 3 of a kind you are 2 cards away from a full house and with 2 pair you are 1 card away. So the 2 pair looks like it should be the more valuable.